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After 3 years, how are we worse?

  • How did this happen? I thought we were bringing in better talent? Coaches that needed to be replaced had been. I really don't understand. Is the talent really not an upgrade? Is the staff truly that inept? Like most on this board, I didn't expect to play in the title game this year when Joker took over 3 years ago. However, I had hoped he would at least sustain Brooks success and maybe compete for the east crown in year 5 or 6 of Joker's tenure. Everyone knew UL would get better and the series would be very competitive, I think its unreal to expect to beat them every year but we didn't even make a game out of it. Now WKU has beaten us, so what is next? How long will it take to get this program where it is competitive again?

    PAXCAT

  • Never forget, this whole unvraveling is due to Rich Brooks having 2 poor recruiters as assistant coaches.

    MinterWonderlnd

  • Apparently more than 2..

    wildcatdon ●

  • PAXCAT said...

    How did this happen? I thought we were bringing in better talent? Coaches that needed to be replaced had been. I really don't understand. Is the talent really not an upgrade? Is the staff truly that inept?

    We hired someone as coach we should not have, someone not capable of building an SEC program (or even sustaining a 6-6/7-5 program). simple as that. Any upgrades in recruiting was false, was not true, just propaganda from a certain segment of the fanbase accurately described with a nickname involving the star that our planet revolves around.

    JHB4UK

  • Bottom line is Vandy and the Miss teams are now better and have went all in, they have young up and coming HC's that can recruit and universities that can get upgrades to keep them climbing. I know Vandy's facilities are still behind ours but I look for Miss St to really take off similar to South Carolina now that they are planning huge facility upgrades... Mitch and Co have put to much of our resources into the smaller non profit sports and not the bread winner. Those that have a say must also not care much about FB, that has had to play a role in our demise. Something needs to be done, some say we will never have a good FB program but I don't buy that, our fan base wants a good FB program if Mitch can't make it happen he should be judged same as Joker, we are in the SEC not C-USA or Big east... The SEC plays FB.

    This post was edited by todd on 9/17/2012 at 12:01 PM

    todd

  • MinterWonderlnd said...

    Never forget, this whole unvraveling is due to Rich Brooks having 2 poor recruiters as assistant coaches.

    Oh really?
    RB coach: Larry brinson 2007-2010
    2007: no targets or commits
    2008: commits(1): Osaze Idumwonyi
    2009: Commits(3) Ryan mosby, Ryann Mossakowski, Dakotah Tyler
    2010: zero commits
    DC: Steve Brown
    2003-2005: No commits or targets
    2006: 1 commit, chris drayton
    2007 2 commits, Jake lanefski, Shane McCord
    2008 1 commit, Trevino Woods
    2009-2011: no commits
    OL coach: Jimmy Heggins
    2005: no commits
    2006: 1 commit TC Drake
    2007: 3 commits Taiedo smith, Ronnie Sneed, Josh Winchell
    2008: 1 commit, Matt Smith
    2009: 2 commits Jarvis and Myron Walker
    ST coach: Steve Ortmayer
    2003-2005 Zero commits
    2006 4 commits: Chris Cessna, Ricky Lumpkin, Lones Seiber, Paul Warford
    2007: 2 commits, Brad Durham, Josh Winchell
    2008: 2 commits William Johnson, Deaunte Mason
    2009: 3 commits Chris Matthews, Josh Morgan, Larry Warford
    DL coach: Rick Perti
    2005: no commits
    2006: 1 commit, Jamil Paris
    2007: No commits
    2008: 2 commits Eric Adeyemi, Danny Trevathan
    2009-2011 at uk and 2012-2013 at duke: no commits
    DB coach: Chris Thurmond
    2008: none
    2009: Anthony Kendrick
    2010: None
    Now lets have some fun:
    HCoftheO/WR coach: Joker Phillips
    2006: 17 commits, including Micah Johnson, Corey Peters, Calvin Harrison
    2007: 9 commits, including Mychal Bailey, Randall Burden, Stuart Hines, Tydlacka
    2008: 11 commits, including Boyd, EJ Fields, Winston Guy, Gene McCaskill, Cartier Rice, Matt roark, Donte Rumph, Matt Smith, Collins ukwu, Taylor Wyndham
    2009: 10 commits, including mister cobble, kevin mitchell, morgan newton, ridge wilson
    2010: 7 commits.
    QB coach: Randy Sanders
    2006: none
    2007: 4 commits, Anthony Mosley, Kyrus Lanxter
    2008: 1 commit, Randall cobb
    2009: no commits
    2010: 4 commits, Avery Williamson, Ray sanders, Tyler Robinson, Jabari johnson
    2011: 4 commits, Christian Coleman, Alvin Dupree, Shaq love, Max smith, Darrell Warren
    2012: 2 commits, Shawn Blaylock, DeMarcus Sweat
    2013: 1 commit Reese Phillips
    LB coach: Chuck Smith
    2005: none
    2006: 3 commits, Chirs cessna, Mike Hartline, Josh Minton
    2007: 1 commit, Billy Joe Murphy
    2008: 3 commits, Chandler Burden, EJ fields, Winston Guy
    2009: 4 commits, Jordan Aumiller, Morgan Newton, Sam Simpson, Dakotah, Tyler
    2010: 4 commits, Tyler Brause, Mike Douglas, Teven Eatmon, Alex Smith
    2011: 2 commits, Darrian Miller, Zach West
    2012: 5 commits, Josh Harris, Landston Newton, Jon Reed, Jon Toth, Patrick Towles
    Sorry for the long post.
    So, Larry Brinson 4 years, 4 commits. No impact guys, Tyler was a shared recruitment; Poor recruiter
    Steve Brown 8 years, 4 commits, best one, Trevino Woods; Poor recruiter
    Jimmy Heggins 5 years , 7 commits best, Ronnie Sneed, shared Matt Smith; Poor recruiter
    Steve Ortameyer 7 years, 11 commits best, Chris Matthews, Shared Larry Warford; Argueable
    Rick Petri 8 years at UK, 3 commits, best, Danny Trevanthan; Poor Recruiter
    Chris Thrumond 3 years at UK, 1 commit, Anthony Kendrick, yet to contribute; Poor recruiter.
    So that is 5 poor recruits and Ortameyer.
    in 2006, Joker recruited 55% of the entire class.
    in 2008, Joker recruited 52% of the entire class.
    in 2009, joker recruited 36% of the entire class, and with Randy and Chuck, they recruited 64% of the class.
    That is too much burden for Joker and/or Randy and Chuck to bear.

    trueUKgamer

  • OK so Joker is responsible for the talent level in the program along with Sanders and Smith. You can't have it both ways.

    zcats

  • trueUKgamer said...

    Oh really? RB coach: Larry brinson 2007-2010 2007: no targets or commits 2008: commits(1): Osaze Idumwonyi 2009: Commits(3) Ryan mosby, Ryann Mossakowski, Dakotah Tyler 2010: zero commits DC: Steve Brown 2003-2005: No commits or targets 2006: 1 commit, chris drayton 2007 2 commits, Jake lanefski, Shane McCord 2008 1 commit, Trevino Woods 2009-2011: no commits OL coach: Jimmy Heggins 2005: no commits 2006: 1 commit TC Drake 2007: 3 commits Taiedo smith, Ronnie Sneed, Josh Winchell 2008: 1 commit, Matt Smith 2009: 2 commits Jarvis and Myron Walker ST coach: Steve Ortmayer 2003-2005 Zero commits 2006 4 commits: Chris Cessna, Ricky Lumpkin, Lones Seiber, Paul Warford 2007: 2 commits, Brad Durham, Josh Winchell 2008: 2 commits William Johnson, Deaunte Mason 2009: 3 commits Chris Matthews, Josh Morgan, Larry Warford DL coach: Rick Perti 2005: no commits 2006: 1 commit, Jamil Paris 2007: No commits 2008: 2 commits Eric Adeyemi, Danny Trevathan 2009-2011 at uk and 2012-2013 at duke: no commits DB coach: Chris Thurmond 2008: none 2009: Anthony Kendrick 2010: None Now lets have some fun: HCoftheO/WR coach: Joker Phillips 2006: 17 commits, including Micah Johnson, Corey Peters, Calvin Harrison 2007: 9 commits, including Mychal Bailey, Randall Burden, Stuart Hines, Tydlacka 2008: 11 commits, including Boyd, EJ Fields, Winston Guy, Gene McCaskill, Cartier Rice, Matt roark, Donte Rumph, Matt Smith, Collins ukwu, Taylor Wyndham 2009: 10 commits, including mister cobble, kevin mitchell, morgan newton, ridge wilson 2010: 7 commits. QB coach: Randy Sanders 2006: none 2007: 4 commits, Anthony Mosley, Kyrus Lanxter 2008: 1 commit, Randall cobb 2009: no commits 2010: 4 commits, Avery Williamson, Ray sanders, Tyler Robinson, Jabari johnson 2011: 4 commits, Christian Coleman, Alvin Dupree, Shaq love, Max smith, Darrell Warren 2012: 2 commits, Shawn Blaylock, DeMarcus Sweat 2013: 1 commit Reese Phillips LB coach: Chuck Smith 2005: none 2006: 3 commits, Chirs cessna, Mike Hartline, Josh Minton 2007: 1 commit, Billy Joe Murphy 2008: 3 commits, Chandler Burden, EJ fields, Winston Guy 2009: 4 commits, Jordan Aumiller, Morgan Newton, Sam Simpson, Dakotah, Tyler 2010: 4 commits, Tyler Brause, Mike Douglas, Teven Eatmon, Alex Smith 2011: 2 commits, Darrian Miller, Zach West 2012: 5 commits, Josh Harris, Landston Newton, Jon Reed, Jon Toth, Patrick Towles Sorry for the long post. So, Larry Brinson 4 years, 4 commits. No impact guys, Tyler was a shared recruitment; Poor recruiter Steve Brown 8 years, 4 commits, best one, Trevino Woods; Poor recruiter Jimmy Heggins 5 years , 7 commits best, Ronnie Sneed, shared Matt Smith; Poor recruiter Steve Ortameyer 7 years, 11 commits best, Chris Matthews, Shared Larry Warford; Argueable Rick Petri 8 years at UK, 3 commits, best, Danny Trevanthan; Poor Recruiter Chris Thrumond 3 years at UK, 1 commit, Anthony Kendrick, yet to contribute; Poor recruiter. So that is 5 poor recruits and Ortameyer. in 2006, Joker recruited 55% of the entire class. in 2008, Joker recruited 52% of the entire class. in 2009, joker recruited 36% of the entire class, and with Randy and Chuck, they recruited 64% of the class. That is too much burden for Joker and/or Randy and Chuck to bear.

    If you are going by the rivals.com/recruiting info for who is responsible for our recruits then you need to educate yourself.

    rob65

  • MinterWonderlnd said...

    Never forget, this whole unvraveling is due to Rich Brooks having 2 poor recruiters as assistant coaches.

    Joker was the head coach in waiting the last 2 years...this excuse is getting old...

    cousincarl

  • zcats said...

    OK so Joker is responsible for the talent level in the program along with Sanders and Smith. You can't have it both ways.

    What it means is joker, sanders, and smith were the ONLY people recruiting. That means you don't have the time to focus on better recruits because you have to fill numbers. That is the point i am making.

    trueUKgamer

  • rob65 said...

    If you are going by the rivals.com/recruiting info for who is responsible for our recruits then you need to educate yourself.

    Please educate me then. That is the best source I have available, if you can do better, then DO IT.

    trueUKgamer

  • cousincarl said...

    Joker was the head coach in waiting the last 2 years...this excuse is getting old...

    I think that was sarcasm from minter.

    trueUKgamer

  • trueUKgamer said...

    Please educate me then. That is the best source I have available, if you can do better, then DO IT.

    Hey, that is not a slam toward you and I do respect your research...I've done the same thing through the years.

    Brooks brought kids into the program by committee. it didn't matter who recruited who, it was basically a vote by the staff and majority took the prospect. Sure, Joker shows up as the lead recruiter on many of our prospects but he was basically a guy who was good at the point of contact and therefore led to the staff making a determination on who to bring in.

    Basically, Rivals shows guys as lead recruiters as they were the initial point of contact for most of the prospects; I'm just saying don't let the Rivals info lead you into believing that Joker Phillips was traveling 5k miles per week recruiting these guys.

    One more thing, look at the Rivals major talent we have lost over the last three years...CJP was listed as the primary recruiter for those guys but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was the sole recruiter.

    It's all FUBAR to me. Like I said earlier, don't believe what some 23yo Rivals recruiting nerd displays as gospel, it's not true.

    rob65

  • rob65 said...

    Hey, that is not a slam toward you and I do respect your research...I've done the same thing through the years.

    Brooks brought kids into the program by committee. it didn't matter who recruited who, it was basically a vote by the staff and majority took the prospect. Sure, Joker shows up as the lead recruiter on many of our prospects but he was basically a guy who was good at the point of contact and therefore led to the staff making a determination on who to bring in.

    Basically, Rivals shows guys as lead recruiters as they were the initial point of contact for most of the prospects; I'm just saying don't let the Rivals info lead you into believing that Joker Phillips was traveling 5k miles per week recruiting these guys.

    One more thing, look at the Rivals major talent we have lost over the last three years...CJP was listed as the primary recruiter for those guys but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was the sole recruiter.

    It's all FUBAR to me. Like I said earlier, don't believe what some 23yo Rivals recruiting nerd displays as gospel, it's not true.

    I accept what you have said, but it is the only source we fans have. Also i hate rivals, but see first sentence, i'm 22, and it isn't the gospel to me. We clearly disagree on many things so i will stop commenting on your posts.

    trueUKgamer

  • I think maybe something is being forgotten here. Maybe it's not the recruits and recruiters. Maybe it's that Brooks had the ability to coach up the players and develop them into better players while Joker hasn't shown that ability.

    signature image

    CarlLexington

  • CarlLexington said...

    I think maybe something is being forgotten here. Maybe it's not the recruits and recruiters. Maybe it's that Brooks had the ability to coach up the players and develop them into better players while Joker hasn't shown that ability.

    Thats obviously the case but its been said before. We don't just wanna go back to the Brooks era all over again either. We need a coach that can push us beyond that after a couple years. To do that we need recruits and recruiters.

    tWhit ●

  • tWhit said...

    Thats obviously the case but its been said before. We don't just wanna go back to the Brooks era all over again either. We need a coach that can push us beyond that after a couple years. To do that we need recruits and recruiters.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't follow the football program as much as many of you do. Of course you need good recruiters and recruits. Are the players we've recruited after Brooks been of a lesser caliber than those recruited during Brooks? I'm thinking, no. It seems Brooks recruited mostly 2 and 3 stars with a 4 star thrown in from time to time. That's about what Joker has done isn't it? If I'm wrong about that I'll take your guys word for it.

    Right now I'm not worrying about getting past what Brooks accomplished. I'd settle for not getting shoved around the field like a bunch of pansies.

    signature image

    CarlLexington

  • tWhit said...

    Thats obviously the case but its been said before. We don't just wanna go back to the Brooks era all over again either. We need a coach that can push us beyond that after a couple years. To do that we need recruits and recruiters.

    I am coming to the conclusion this is an impossible scenario and we have experienced our high water mark in the SEC. The gap between UK and the mid-tier of UK is growing further apart not closer together in the foundations of the program. Soon the SEC will go to a nine game schedule. If we don't change conferences we are always going to be stuck battling Vandy for the basement. It's not a coach, it's not in-state talent, it's not money, it's not facilities, pee wee football...it's all of it. I am FINALLY ready to face facts and admit we are not an SEC football university and we NEVER will be. Do we continue to let them beat our brains out or do we go find immediate and sustainable success elsewhere? I vote for moving on.

    I am slipping into troll mode...I feel it overcoming me....I am powerless to stop it...beware of excessive agenda postings!

    trollstrollstrolls

    jamccain ●

  • jamccain said...

    I am slipping into troll mode...I feel it overcoming me....I am powerless to stop it...beware of excessive agenda postings!

    trollstrollstrolls

    attachment
    signature image

    CarlLexington

  • jamccain said...

    I am coming to the conclusion this is an impossible scenario and we have experienced our high water mark in the SEC. The gap between UK and the mid-tier of UK is growing further apart not closer together in the foundations of the program. Soon the SEC will go to a nine game schedule. If we don't change conferences we are always going to be stuck battling Vandy for the basement. It's not a coach, it's not in-state talent, it's not money, it's not facilities, pee wee football...it's all of it. I am FINALLY ready to face facts and admit we are not an SEC football university and we NEVER will be. Do we continue to let them beat our brains out or do we go find immediate and sustainable success elsewhere? I vote for moving on.

    I am slipping into troll mode...I feel it overcoming me....I am powerless to stop it...beware of excessive agenda postings!

    Maybe that will be our fate. Can't say I'm real confident that it won't be. Would love to wake up one day at the end of the season and hear we hired a big time coach. Hopefully the money that might be coming to renovate Commonwealth will be a good start. Hell who knows. My brain feels like a fish bowl trying to keep up with it half the time.

    tWhit ●

  • A '*' marks a coaching change.

    WKU Football:

    2009 record 0–12 (0–8 SBC)

    2010 record 2–10 (2–6 SBC)*

    2011 record 7–5 (7–1 Sun Belt)

    2012 record 2-1 (0-0 SBC)

    UL Football:

    2009 record 4–8 (1–6 Big East)

    2010 record 7–6 (3–4 Big East)*

    2011 record 7–6 (5–2 Big East)

    2012 record 3-0 (0-0 Big East)*

    Arkansas Football:

    2008 record 5–7 (2–6 SEC)*

    2009 record 8–5 (3–5 SEC)

    2010 record 10–3 (6–2 SEC)

    2011 record 11–2 (6–2 SEC)

    UK Football:

    2009 record 7–6 (3–5 SEC)

    2010 record 6–7 (2–6 SEC)*

    2011 record 5–7 (2–6 SEC)

    2012 record 1-2 (0-0 SEC)

    signature image

    Big Sarge

  • Where's RV and Messenger? They still saying "everything is fine" and "people are too negative"? LoL

    MinterWonderlnd

  • I think it isn't just about the quality of recruits and who recruited them, but also how many we retained.

    We have had a ton of attrition out of the 2008 and 2009 classes that have left the team lacking of juniors and seniors now. The question is why? Granted some of these were over recruited and others left for other reasons. Coaching changes usually follow by the loss of some players but you would think the CIW thing would have mitigated that.

    How much of the responsibility for the lack of quality juniors and players form the rosters is on the shoulders of Joker and his staff is an open topic. Is it just circumstances he inherited or, is it something to do with his management of the program, or recruiting misses? That should be looked at further before dropping the ax IMO.

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

    Deeeefense

  • tWhit said...

    Maybe that will be our fate. Can't say I'm real confident that it won't be. Would love to wake up one day at the end of the season and hear we hired a big time coach. Hopefully the money that might be coming to renovate Commonwealth will be a good start. Hell who knows. My brain feels like a fish bowl trying to keep up with it half the time.

    The money isn't that far off. Spurrier make $2m & Joker $1.7 & Petrino was @ $2.7. Probably another $1.25 to get the "big name" and staff. It could happen.

    Saban($6m) & Miles($4m) are ridiculously over paid by their state. A is coach Calipari.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by UK141240 on 9/19/2012 at 12:06 PM

    UK141240

  • UK{°^°} said...

    The money isn't that far off. Spurrier make $2m & Joker $1.7 & Petrino was @ $2.7. Probably another $1.25 to get the "big name" and staff. It could happen.

    Saban($6m) & Miles($4m) are ridiculously over paid by their state. A is coach Calipari.

    We can pay a coach whatever we need to. Thats not the issue.

    tWhit ●

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