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Cats should look to get more in state players.

  • In 2007 25 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools (including WKU) of those UK offered 17 players. Some of the notable players UK didn't offer were:

    Ryan Beard CB (WKU): was a starting safety for WKU for last couple years
    Wes Jeffries OL (WKU): Starter for last 3 seasons was All Sun Belt

    In 2008 17 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 11 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Jared Carpenter DB (Northwestern): has played in 31 games and has 8 starts
    Corey Robinson QB (Troy): has been a starter and very good QB in pass happy offense
    John Cole WR (Vandy): has been decent WR (65 catches 758 yards 2 TD on career) while dealing with injuries
    DL Wilhite DE (Minnesota): has been a solid DE starting 8 games each of last 2 seasons
    Trent Steelman QB (Army): has lead the Army option for last couple years

    In 2009 24 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 10 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Roy Philon DT (UL): has been good DT at UL and is in line to start again this year
    Shenard Holton S (UL): decent S who started early, but ran into problems and has transfered to New Mexico Highlands
    Trevor Foy OT (Purdue): started last 8 games last year and in line to start again this year

    In 2010 19 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 8 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Channing Fugate FB/LB (UT): played a lot at FB his first two years/apparently has moved to LB
    Drew Hardin S (IU): started 4 games as a rFr last year contributed 34 tlks
    Rico Brown WR (WKU): started 7 games had 185 yds receiving as rFr
    Jordan Hansel OL (Ball St): has started 15 games in his first 2 seasons at Ball St

    In 2011 22 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 13 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Mitchell Henry TE (WKU): played as a true Fr caught 8 passes for 105 yds and 3 TDs
    To early to tell about others.

    In 2012 20 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 11 players. Obviously it is too early to tell if any of those guys will contribute.

    Obviously there have been a couple misses (Robinson, Foy, Philon, Wilhite, Jeffries) that would have helped us, but really that is a pretty good record. From the 2007 to 2010 classes there were 14 Kentucky HS that UK didn't offer that made a notable impact at their school. That doesn't mean they would have even played at UK.

    If a kid from Kentucky wants to play in-state he has every opportunity. UK has multiple camps where they can come and work out right in front of the coaches. And UK coaches have a track record of giving out offers in those camps too. The real problem lies in not being able to keep the top in state talent at UK. But there really isn't much UK can do about it besides attempting to change the perception of the program. We have been a bad to mediocre program for a long time and when these kids who can choose nationally where to go they will usually choose the out of state option (Hatcher, Dawson, Bivin, Pike, Whiting, Green, Robey, Newman, Minnifield). That is life until we can show that we aren't a push over in the SEC on a year to year basis.

    First step has always been to win the state, which we still can't lock up. That starts Sept 2 and continues when we take on WKU. Beat UL and put away WKU easily and we are once again on the right path.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by kyleb740 on 8/20/2012 at 5:06 PM

    kyleb740

  • The first class that Joker recruited as HC signed in February 2011. IOW the 2011 class which are now Sophs or RS Frosh. Just sayin' ...

    IamRV

  • People on here are talking about UK missing on players that would have been recruited when Joker Phillips wasn't even on UK's staff pre 2003. Just sayin'....

    And if UK is going to miss on DI signees that they didn't offer in the 2011 class then it will have to be one of these:

    Nick Bennett OL from Eastern HS signed with Army (only offer)

    Ryan Smith DT from Henry Clay signed with Navy (Tenn Martin, Wofford, Tenn Tech offered)

    Trevan Brown OL from Boone County signed with Miami OH (only offer)

    Troy Timmerman DE from Cov Cath signed with Air Force (Akron, Buff, Kent St, Marshall, Murray offered)

    John Wallace K from Cen Hardin went to UL (only offer)

    Matt Green K from Lafayette went to OK St (only offer)

    Sebastian Johansson OL from Raceland went to Marshall (scout says we offered but rivals doesn't) interesting story played one year for Raceland as a foreign exchange student his junior year and played on a club squad back in Sweden

    Mitchell Henry TE from E'town signed with WKU (Bowling Green and Memphis offered)

    Austin Abner DB from Highlands signed with Illinois (Bowling Green and Indiana St offered)

    kyleb740

  • footballcat65 said...

    UK took 5 players from from in-state lastyear if you include gray-shirt Harmon. That's a pretty good number if you ask me.

    Thank you. Kentucky has just allowed spring practice the last couple years. I know we will never reach the level of recruts as does Fla, ga, and such..but for the guy that said Tenn, and Virgina, you take out memphis and the Newport, Va areas, and take out Louisville in Ky, and KY has about the same level of talent and competition. Breathitt used to dose Pound, Va. and a couple more Va teams. Breathitt played the hearlded Brentwood Academy from Tenn and plowed them, like 56-21. Breathitt plays a powerful foe in the honey bowleach year, I remember North Hardin and Andre Woodson coming in 2002?? Justin Haddix had 8td's at the half..Woodson went 4-12 for 80 yards, 0td's. I think Hardin was 5A, Breathitt 2A. Haddix went on to start 4 years at QB for WKU, and holds just about every passing record for the Hilltoppers. I coached Justin Haddix, from the time he was in 5th grade..he had offers from Viginia, NC State, and Clemson to play Saftey. John Rader and Jonathan Chapman went to UK, Channing Fugate to Tenn, Waylon Chapman and Shorty Combs to EKU.
    Richard Trent has all the talent and athletic ability in the world. Brayton Fugate as well. Wes Noble is a jr, and is a 6'5..6'6 210lb WR that runs a high 4.5 and can elevate to snag jump balls. Breathitt has a sophomore Ath in Kyle Brewer that plays rb/wr, cb/s and does some returns and coverage. Brewer had 6 runs for 53 yrds..7 tackles, a forced fumble, a int he returned for 37 yrds, and 4 recptions for 81 yrds and a td in his 1st varsity start. He is a 5'11 150lb soph that will wind up 6'1 around 185..and already runs a 4.57 40 and holds the school record in the 200m,400m, and 800m dashes, the 110m hurdles, and the long jump..with a 21.5ft jump.Also, Corey Shouse..a tough as nails.. 6'1 218lb Lb that is a vicious hitter.and is quick as a cat..he doubles as the backup tailback.If you want to watch a fun, explosive offense and a hard hitting, agressive defense..watch a Breathitt game..
    Also..Ky has mini talent poolsin Frankfort, Owensboro, Bowling Green, Radcliff, Danville. For some reason, Lexington is behind in terms of overall talent per capita.

    BigBlueDawg12

  • BigBlueDawg12 said...

    Thank you. Kentucky has just allowed spring practice the last couple years. I know we will never reach the level of recruts as does Fla, ga, and such..but for the guy that said Tenn, and Virgina, you take out memphis and the Newport, Va areas, and take out Louisville in Ky, and KY has about the same level of talent and competition. Breathitt used to dose Pound, Va. and a couple more Va teams. Breathitt played the hearlded Brentwood Academy from Tenn and plowed them, like 56-21. Breathitt plays a powerful foe in the honey bowleach year, I remember North Hardin and Andre Woodson coming in 2002?? Justin Haddix had 8td's at the half..Woodson went 4-12 for 80 yards, 0td's. I think Hardin was 5A, Breathitt 2A. Haddix went on to start 4 years at QB for WKU, and holds just about every passing record for the Hilltoppers. I coached Justin Haddix, from the time he was in 5th grade..he had offers from Viginia, NC State, and Clemson to play Saftey. John Rader and Jonathan Chapman went to UK, Channing Fugate to Tenn, Waylon Chapman and Shorty Combs to EKU. Richard Trent has all the talent and athletic ability in the world. Brayton Fugate as well. Wes Noble is a jr, and is a 6'5..6'6 210lb WR that runs a high 4.5 and can elevate to snag jump balls. Breathitt has a sophomore Ath in Kyle Brewer that plays rb/wr, cb/s and does some returns and coverage. Brewer had 6 runs for 53 yrds..7 tackles, a forced fumble, a int he returned for 37 yrds, and 4 recptions for 81 yrds and a td in his 1st varsity start. He is a 5'11 150lb soph that will wind up 6'1 around 185..and already runs a 4.57 40 and holds the school record in the 200m,400m, and 800m dashes, the 110m hurdles, and the long jump..with a 21.5ft jump.Also, Corey Shouse..a tough as nails.. 6'1 218lb Lb that is a vicious hitter.and is quick as a cat..he doubles as the backup tailback.If you want to watch a fun, explosive offense and a hard hitting, agressive defense..watch a Breathitt game.. Also..Ky has mini talent poolsin Frankfort, Owensboro, Bowling Green, Radcliff, Danville. For some reason, Lexington is behind in terms of overall talent per capita.

    Newport News area? The Tidewater area of VA alone dwarfs the Louisville metro area by nearly 500,000 people.....and you didn't even include the NOVA metro area which has Louisville by several million. You're really equating Breathitt beating Pound (with an enrollment of around 300) to VA not having good football? When I was talking about VA football, I wasn't talking about the podunk towns across the border. Take out Memphis? You still have the Nashville, Knoxville and Chattanooga areas. Brentwood? They haven't been "heralded" since the TSSAA put the hammer on Carlton Flatt's recruiting. The Breathitt guys you mentioned? There isn't a one of them who would have or in Rader's case did make a difference at UK. I understand that you're looking at this with your heart, instead of objectively, but there's no comparison. Here are the population rankings of the 3 states:

    #12 VA (8 million plus)
    #17 TN (6 million plus)
    #26 KY (4 million plus)

    State rankings in African-American population

    #9 VA (20%)
    #10 TN (17%)
    #25 KY (8%)

    JDHoss

  • I dont argue that UK has less talent than the states that you listed. My argument is that UK needs to keep the players in state that do have the talent to play in the SEC. UK just doesnt seem to be able to keep the very best in state recruits.

    Think about the players that have gone out of state the past several years and how much better UK could have been if they had been able to get all of them.

    When you have less tallent it is even more important that you get most of it. Especially the cream of the crop.

    Cll80

  • kyleb740 said...

    In 2007 25 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools (including WKU) of those UK offered 17 players. Some of the notable players UK didn't offer were:

    Ryan Beard CB (WKU): was a starting safety for WKU for last couple years
    Wes Jeffries OL (WKU): Starter for last 3 seasons was All Sun Belt

    In 2008 17 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 11 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Jared Carpenter DB (Northwestern): has played in 31 games and has 8 starts
    Corey Robinson QB (Troy): has been a starter and very good QB in pass happy offense
    John Cole WR (Vandy): has been decent WR (65 catches 758 yards 2 TD on career) while dealing with injuries
    DL Wilhite DE (Minnesota): has been a solid DE starting 8 games each of last 2 seasons
    Trent Steelman QB (Army): has lead the Army option for last couple years

    In 2009 24 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 10 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Roy Philon DT (UL): has been good DT at UL and is in line to start again this year
    Shenard Holton S (UL): decent S who started early, but ran into problems and has transfered to New Mexico Highlands
    Trevor Foy OT (Purdue): started last 8 games last year and in line to start again this year

    In 2010 19 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 8 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Channing Fugate FB/LB (UT): played a lot at FB his first two years/apparently has moved to LB
    Drew Hardin S (IU): started 4 games as a rFr last year contributed 34 tlks
    Rico Brown WR (WKU): started 7 games had 185 yds receiving as rFr
    Jordan Hansel OL (Ball St): has started 15 games in his first 2 seasons at Ball St

    In 2011 22 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 13 players. Notable players didn't offer:

    Mitchell Henry TE (WKU): played as a true Fr caught 8 passes for 105 yds and 3 TDs
    To early to tell about others.

    In 2012 20 Kentucky HS players signed to DI schools of those UK offered 11 players. Obviously it is too early to tell if any of those guys will contribute.

    Obviously there have been a couple misses (Robinson, Foy, Philon, Wilhite, Jeffries) that would have helped us, but really that is a pretty good record. From the 2007 to 2010 classes there were 14 Kentucky HS that UK didn't offer that made a notable impact at their school. That doesn't mean they would have even played at UK.

    If a kid from Kentucky wants to play in-state he has every opportunity. UK has multiple camps where they can come and work out right in front of the coaches. And UK coaches have a track record of giving out offers in those camps too. The real problem lies in not being able to keep the top in state talent at UK. But there really isn't much UK can do about it besides attempting to change the perception of the program. We have been a bad to mediocre program for a long time and when these kids who can choose nationally where to go they will usually choose the out of state option (Hatcher, Dawson, Bivin, Pike, Whiting, Green, Robey, Newman, Minnifield). That is life until we can show that we aren't a push over in the SEC on a year to year basis.

    First step has always been to win the state, which we still can't lock up. That starts Sept 2 and continues when we take on WKU. Beat UL and put away WKU easily and we are once again on the right path.

    That list further proves to me that we do NOT need to make it a point to offer more KY kids. The fact that you go on to play D1 ball somewhere, or maybe even start, does not mean you are SEC material. It is a great thing that we have moved forward from the days of stressing over kids who end up at places like WKU, Marshall, MAC programs, military academies, Minnesota, etc. Fugate is the only player on that list who should have been offered, IMO.

    mjdotson

  • Cll80 said...

    I dont argue that UK has less talent than the states that you listed. My argument is that UK needs to keep the players in state that do have the talent to play in the SEC. UK just doesnt seem to be able to keep the very best in state recruits.

    Think about the players that have gone out of state the past several years and how much better UK could have been if they had been able to get all of them.

    When you have less tallent it is even more important that you get most of it. Especially the cream of the crop.

    Obviously I think everyone agrees with you here. Dawson would be a starting LB on this team and maybe Jordan Whiting too. Justin Green would be a starting CB. Tate Nichols or Jamon Brown would probably start at RT. Jon Davis would be one of the top TEs. DeVante Parker would be a top WR for us. Austin Collinsworth would push for time at safety. And who knows, if DeMarcus Smith wasn't a horse's ass then he might have played last year and would be the starting QB as a So instead of Maxwell Smith. Joker/Brooks went after all those kids hard; heck 2 (Green/Davis) of them burnt UK on NSD. They just didn't want to come to UK.

    But the premise of the thread and what BigBlueDawg is still trying to get across is that we should look to offer more instate players. Not the ones that are recruited by other DI teams, but the ones that might slip through because they play in small towns where they haven't been recognized. He thinks (and some others too) that these are the players that can lead us to improvement in the SEC. That is what most people are disagreeing with (me included). Kentucky HS players are obviously central to UK doing well, but that doesn't mean we should attempt to bring in any Kentucky HS that had a decent HS career.

    This post was edited by kyleb740 on 8/21/2012 at 9:05 AM

    kyleb740

  • IamRV said...

    The first class that Joker recruited as HC signed in February 2011. IOW the 2011 class which are now Sophs or RS Frosh. Just sayin' ...

    Huh? So, was Charlie Strong's first class as UL's head coach 2010 or 2011? Both took over at the same time, didn't they?

    MinterWonderlnd

  • MinterWonderlnd said...

    Huh? So, was Charlie Strong's first class as UL's head coach 2010 or 2011? Both took over at the same time, didn't they?

    The first class that Cholly recruited as HC signed in February 2011.

    This post was edited by IamRV on 8/21/2012 at 9:29 AM

    IamRV

  • Cll80 said...

    I dont argue that UK has less talent than the states that you listed. My argument is that UK needs to keep the players in state that do have the talent to play in the SEC. UK just doesnt seem to be able to keep the very best in state recruits.

    Think about the players that have gone out of state the past several years and how much better UK could have been if they had been able to get all of them.

    When you have less tallent it is even more important that you get most of it. Especially the cream of the crop.

    Chicken or the egg kind of thing. Kids in this state (and maybe more importantly - their parents and HS coaches) in general do not respect UK football, do not think it is a winner, think it is a hopeless situation to avoid. That is the product of so many seasons of nonwinning unexciting football. Kids are told by those around them to go away, go to any possible out of state school they can. Seemingly the only instate kids UK gets are the ones who grew up true diehard fans, or who quite frankly UK is their best offer.

    IMO a lot HS coaches in this state might be UK fans, but moreso most of them want it on their resume "I had a Boston college signee, a Notre Dame signee, a Tennessee signee".

    How does it change, UK has to win, has to have an environment around it where winning is the desire and that 6-6 isnt fine to settle with

    JHB4UK

  • JDHoss said...

    Newport News area? The Tidewater area of VA alone dwarfs the Louisville metro area by nearly 500,000 people.....and you didn't even include the NOVA metro area which has Louisville by several million. You're really equating Breathitt beating Pound (with an enrollment of around 300) to VA not having good football? When I was talking about VA football, I wasn't talking about the podunk towns across the border. Take out Memphis? You still have the Nashville, Knoxville and Chattanooga areas. Brentwood? They haven't been "heralded" since the TSSAA put the hammer on Carlton Flatt's recruiting. The Breathitt guys you mentioned? There isn't a one of them who would have or in Rader's case did make a difference at UK. I understand that you're looking at this with your heart, instead of objectively, but there's no comparison. Here are the population rankings of the 3 states:

    #12 VA (8 million plus) #17 TN (6 million plus) #26 KY (4 million plus)

    State rankings in African-American population

    #9 VA (20%) #10 TN (17%) #25 KY (8%)

    LoL, you do know that Pound was the state champ for thier classification, and has an enrollment of 600 right? Breathitt has an enrollment of 300..and still produces d1 talent on a yearly basis. My point was a Se Ky school deserves some looks..Look at Channing Fugate, Justin Haddix, John Rader, Waylon Chapman, Shorty Combs, Jonathan Chapman, AJ Johnson, among others. Thats not counting the numerous others that went places like Pikeville, Wofford, or Campbellsville, and Gerorgetown..Tenn Tech, or took scharlorships in Basketball or Baseball instead.

    BigBlueDawg12

  • BigBlueDawg12 said...

    LoL, you do know that Pound was the state champ for thier classification, and has an enrollment of 600 right? Breathitt has an enrollment of 300..and still produces d1 talent on a yearly basis. My point was a Se Ky school deserves some looks..Look at Channing Fugate, Justin Haddix, John Rader, Waylon Chapman, Shorty Combs, Jonathan Chapman, AJ Johnson, among others. Thats not counting the numerous others that went places like Pikeville, Wofford, or Campbellsville, and Gerorgetown..Tenn Tech, or took scharlorships in Basketball or Baseball instead.

    *LOL* yourself....I've forgotten more about Pound that you apparently think you know.

    *Pound played for a state title ONCE in 1999, in Virginia's Division 1, which is the smallest classification. They lost to Surry Co. by a 21-6 score. Aside from that, they have finished below .500 way more often than not, and many of those have been WAY below .500.

    * A friend of mine who taught at Pound for years once described it as "a town of 1800 people, 1200 of which will turn out on Friday night to watch a team that's on the way to a 2-8 season."

    *Pound hasn't seen an enrollment even approaching 600 since the mines were going strong back in the 70's.

    As for the guys you mentioned, none were capable of playing in the SEC, with the exception of Rader (played on Mumme's defenseless teams) and Fugate....and so far, his claim to fame has been being the starting FB on a team that was dead last in the SEC in rushing yards, and #116 in the nation.

    *If there's a Jeremy Caudill, a Tim Couch or a Jacob Hyde, then yes, you want those guys regardless of where they are from. Otherwise, you can't be taking those other guys and ever hope to be remotely competitive.

    JDHoss

  • There is a HUGE difference between "D1" talent and SEC talent. There are 120+ D1 schools. I highly doubt very many kids who played at WKU or EKU would ever start or even play meaningful snaps at UK.

    gobigblue812

  • EKU isnt D-1. And don't sell the talent at Western Kentucky short, as you will see for yourself when they play UK next month. Taggart has done a fantastic job recruiting Florida as well as some quality instate guys that we at one time wanted....DeMarkus Smith, Ace Wales, Pearson.

    JHB4UK

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