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I was trying to figure out how the 2014 scholarship situation will work out since there will only be 13 seniors graduating this year and the word is on this board, the staff plans on signing 27 this year. This is what I came up with:
Spring Roster: 69 (Includes early enrollees S. Borden, Z. Smith, R. Phillips)
Fall Enrollees: 21 (including transfer Braylon Heard. Thanks bluedynasty/Rompcat)
2013 Srs.: (-13)
Attrition: (- 6) (D. Rancifer, J. Taylor, S. Blaylock, B. Cobbins, D. Sweat, S. Wright)
That leaves a total of 71 scholarships spots out of 85, for a total of 14 available spots. Looks like the staff expects 13 spots to open up between now and the fall of 2014.
This seems like a lot but there always is some unexpected attrition during the summer and a lot of players are going to find out this fall if they are going to play under this new staff or whether they need to transfer.
(I have no doubt missed a player or two, so corrections are appreciated)
EDITED: to include the previously omitted Braylon Heard
This post was edited by BlueBloodBob 10 months ago
I think we will see some significant attrition from [current] redshirt freshmen & sophomores. Might even find 2-3 juniors that can see the writing on the wall & will transfer out to a small school or give up football.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one less traveled by, and it has made all the difference (Frost).
Some word that Alvonte Bell may not have graduated HS and may be headed to a JUCO. If so, they can count three toward the 2013 class in December if there is room. I would expect there to be more attrition in the next year also. I would not like to be a third or fourth string underclassman who isn't cutting it in the class room or runs afoul of the law.
Three rides in December would me that they could bring in 28 new faces for 2014 (plus Braylon Heard). Unlikely as it is now, it would not surprise me to see them strive to get as close to that figure of 28, especially if they were to be close to the 25-ride limit come February and some very highly-rated guys making late decisions (especially at positions of need like DL, LB, DB or WR).
What about Caffey's spot has that been filled?
Where has it been stated that Bell may not have graduated high school and is headed to a juco? Link please.
Also, new rules have explicitly made it clear that any who sign the LOI will be counted against the 25 total. So, if someone signs and doesn't make it to campus that spot cannot be backcounted (anymore).
Also of note is Heard because he was not mentioned in the OP. Though not certain, I think he will be here in the fall although unable to play this year. Giving up on a whole season practicing with the team as well as the S&C aspect would make it crazy not to.
IOW, although he won't count against our 25 for any year, he will count against the 85 total and that will start this fall. Has it been explicitly stated somewhere that he will wait until spring? Is there a link to this somewhere?
Note: from the link, an April article:
Heard, a 5-foot-11, 185-pound junior-to-be, will finish out this semester at Nebraska, then plans to enroll at UK for summer school. He’ll sit out the 2013 season as a redshirt due to NCAA transfer rules, then have two years of eligibility remaining starting in 2014.
Louisville, Kentucky Sports blogs for The Courier-Journal
Caffey and Reed were officially released in early January, well before NSD.
Since they were officially released per the university, numbers given since NSD have been based upon that.
CatsPause.com confirmed with UK football spokesperson Tony Neely that defensive backs Marcus Caffey and Jonathan Reed have been dismissed from the team by new head coach Mark Stoops and will not return.
Note: The linked 247 article doesn't actually give a published date that I see although it states "five months ago" Other artcles I have seen are dated January 09, 2013. It is stupid to have an online posting of an article and to not actually give the posting date, IMO.
Kentuckys football program added a third new player to its roster for the Class of 2013 and dismissed two current ones on Wednesday, continuing its offseason makeover.
Thanks Rompcat and may I commend you on the excellent and thorough response. I had forgotten about Reed. It seems like it's always the guys that you have real high hopes for that end up disappointing. Anyway thanks for taking the time to answer!
I have tried to figure out the same, but there is a lot of info we don't have. We signed 23 i February, but how many of them were counted towards 2012? Is Borden a scholarship player, or does Sting pay his ride. To me it looks like we will be at around 80 scholarship players in the fall, that is not counting walk-ons given a one year scholarship for 2013-14. With 13 seniors it would give aprox. 18 rides for 2014 not counting attrition and RS juniors that can graduate on may not get a 5th year. My guess is that we only signed 20 players counted towards the 2013 class, meaning I think Reese, Smith and Borden were counted towards 2012. If we have more attrition the 2014 class can count up to 30 LOIs.
Acording to the numbers on this site there is 67 on the roster. Subtract 6 and add 22 that gives the Cats 83 in the fall. Take away 13 seniers that leaves 15 scholorships available for 2104. Cats currently have 11 committments so after 4 more committments it is an exercise of upgrading. Cats currently have 11 LB's and 13 DB's and the staff does not seam too high on the overall talent in those areas and not many of them are seniors. I suspect a few of the 3rd and 4th stringers in the fall in those two areas will be pushed out the door.
I don't believe that Reese, Smith and Borden were counted towards the 2012 class.
For there to have been room under the 25 scholarship limit to allow Reese, Smith and Borden to counted towards the 2012 class, there would have to have been either a) only 22 signees; or b) only 22 signees counted towards the 2012 class. Considering there were 26 players signed in 2012, that would require at least 4 of those signees to have been counted towards 2011. The 2011 and 2010 classes had 25 and 27 signees respectively, so I don't believe the 2012 class had the luxury of counting players towards 2011. Accordingly, all 23 signees in 2013 counted towards 2013.
(Does that make sense? It made sense in my head but very well could be an incoherent mess to everyone else).
This is also why I am working with the 27 total signees this year. I have seen it suggested on this site that 27 is the goal for this year and that would make sense with 23 signees last year. This leaves two of the however many early enrollees that sign in 2014 to be counted towards 2013. So you got 25 limit for 2014 + 2 leftover from 2013 = 27.
As I stated above there are a lot of info we don't have so all we can do is have this guessing game.
The NCCA bylaw for FBS Schools in football states that a team only can have 85 financial aid players. The 25 initial Counter rule came in 2011, but I don't know if you could back count to 2010 in 2011. If you could that is important for Kentucky. Keep in mind the 85 and 25 rule is counted once a year, beginning of the fall semester. That's how I read the bylaw, which means a player can sign a LOI, but if he doesn't qualify he will not be counted (receives no Financial aid if he doesn't enroll)
With that in mind you have to og back to 2011 or maybe 2010 in order to guestimate what players are counted for which year. In the classes from 2010 we have signed:
For the 2012 class I think every player got on campus and we still have to wait for the verdict on the 2013 class. However, if we og back to 2010 and 2011 it get's a little more fuzzy.
In 2010 we had a lot of attrition and among the 26 LOI were the following players:
Tim McAdoo, DT
Tim Patterson, LB
Jerrell Priester, ATH
I am not sure these players ever were counted as initial counters in 2010, which opens up the possibility that 2 players in 2011 were counted towards 2010.
In 2011 we had the following players amongst the 25 LOI:
James Elliott, OL
Bubba Tandy, ATH
David Washington, DE
I don't think any of these 3 ever enrolled in the fall of 2011.
I don't really think it matters what happened with back counting in 2011 since the 2011 class had 3 players that didn't make it on campus. Therefore the numbers could be as follows:
Class of 2011 25 or 23 if two players were counted towards 2010
Class of 2012 26 or 23 if three players were counted towards 2011
Class of 2013 23 or 21 if three players were counted towards 2012
That would mean we potentially can sign a class of 29 players for 2014.
Also, when adding the players from each year (not counting walk-ons) I believe the current scholarship count is 82.
My bad on Heard. It should have read "not including Heard."
As for Bell, I thought it was mentioned on this board. It was on another. I belong to several sites and sometimes lose track of what was said where.
This post was edited by bluedynasty 10 months ago
I think you will see 2 or 3 redshirt juniors go through senior day ceremonies this fall. Also, I would bet that our 2014 QBs will consist of one junior, plus Barker and Phillips; so that's 2 more scholarships there. We have only 1 senior OL and yet we are recruiting a ton of OLs, so there will be a few guys at that position who won't return.
Vikings cat, whether a player fails to qualify and does not make it to campus has no bearing on the 25 signing limit imposed by the SEC. Per an SEC official on this very issue:
"'If a player signs, he counts without regard to whether or not he actually enrolls,' SEC spokesman Charles Bloom said in an e-mail Monday."
Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2012/01/30/1885259/sec-clarifies-rule-on-back-counting.html#storylink=cpy
With this in mind, I stick by my original assertion that 27 is the most the staff can sign this fall.
I love it when we start doing the coaches jobs for them.
That can't be right. There are several schools that signed something like 30-32 guys. It has always been you can sign as many as you like but it can only be 25 (unless there are holdover signees) when it comes time to show up for fall.
Limiting 25 signings per class is a very recent rule. It was passed in June of 2011. Chris Low from ESPN.com has a pretty good article on how the 25 player limit works and the loopholes that allow for teams to sign more than 25 per year (such as when and how schools can count early enrollees towards the previous signing class)
(WHOOPS! forgot to link the Chris Low article: http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/42750/new-oversigning-rules-wont-ruin-sec)
Now, the NCAA allows schools to sign 28 players in a class and I am not aware of any other conference besides the SEC that further limits signings to just 25 per year.
The current rule is "holdovers" are for how many one does not sign in a year. If they sign and don't show up, they still count against that total.
If a team signs thirty in a class it is because it signed (no more than) 20 in the previous class and five of those in the current class, five that must be early enrollees, are back counted.
Thus technically it is limited to 25 in the fall as long as any over 25 first entered in December (instead of the fall) and there were fewer than 25 who entered on the previous fall.
So, although we signed 23 this year, we can still sign only 25 to come in next fall but can sign up to two more who can enter in December and be counted toward our 2013 total.
If we have more than two enroll this December, any over the two mark will be counted toward our 25 limit for fall 2014.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by rompcat 10 months ago
My post only took into account the official class signings on signing day, and as I stated what we don't know is what class UK have reported each signee for. That list is counted every August and stays in the AD's office. This year we had Smith, Phillips and Borden as early enrollees, but were they counted towards 2012 or 2013 is the question. As my post showed it is possible they were backcounted, but the final verdict will be put in writing when the August counting is done. That's how A&M and Georgia could sign 30+ in February, because they had early enrollees. In the 2014 class we have several players planning a December graduation.
The real issue is we just don't know, but there is a theorethical possibility we can sign 29, but that's not counting walk-ons offered scholarship as they also will be counted as initial counters.
Since we signed a full class in 2012 wih no early enrollees counted for 2011 that I remember Smith, Phillips and Borden would be counted for 2013.
Again, since we don't know and no school make these things public, we just don't know. However, there is a possibility our 2013 class only consisted of 21 players with any combination of Smith, Phillips and Borden (if a scholarship player) are going to be counted towards 2012. Schools only count initial counters and total players on scholarships once a year and that's in August.
None of those three are able to be counted toward 2012 because we had a full amount for 2012.
The signing lists have been made public (eg. this past NSD when the LOI were posted online, etc.). That is what matters (now). Not whether or not someone makes it to campus.
So, we do know how many kids actually signed every year and thus how many have been available. Many schools, if not all, do this.
I'm not sure where this "no school makes these things public" idea has come from.
Who has signed an LOI is known and that is the defining point.
What am I missing?
I understand SEC allows only 25 signees for a given year. If this is true, the net is that if UK signs 27 from their commits, two have to be countable towards 2013.
Not possible - Bell counts toward the 2013 total of 25 regardless if he is able to enroll at UK. At this moment we will be able to back count 2 upcoming 2014 signees to this 2013 class.
Also we signed a full compliment of 25 for 2012 so none of the 2013 signees could be back counted.
This post was edited by IamRV 10 months ago
RV, how many times have you had to post this? lol
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