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A Modest Proposal

  • Having made a post in another thread that caused me to consider the two "factions" that seem to exist on this board, I figured I would make a proposal, modest or otherwise. There won't be any eating of poor children, despite the title.

    A rift currently exists across the internet fan consciousness. Referred to as "LOD" and their counterpart "Sunshine Pumpers," message boards are currently populated by both sides with plenty of verbal jousting between the two.

    As someone who considers himself somewhere in the middle, I would like to issue a challenge to everyone on this board, regardless of affiliation. I have been guilty of debating those out who I feel are too negative while giving a pass to those who are probably more optimistic than warranted. Wanting to become more objective myself, I wanted to run this by the board.

    If you are or have been referred to as a "pumper," I challenge you to seek out whatever negative you can find about the football program. Let's make a thread and discuss it, without challenging the fanhood of whomever brings the negativity. It will not be a thread for refuting the negative or bashing or blame, but a thread for identifying and discussing those aspects, their potential creation, cause, and effect.

    If you are or have been referred to as an "LOD," I challenge you to seek out whatever positive you can find about the football program. Another thread for discussion, without refutation, where we can identify and discuss what has gone right concerning the program. Again, this is not a thread to credit or boast, but more of an attempt to create an objective discussion of the good qualities.

    I think both sides have become so entrenched in their viewpoint that acknowledging and discussing the other will be beneficial, as this board is rapidly turning into those who espouse one viewpoint to the exclusion of the other. Maybe this would be beneficial, at least as an exercise in moderation.

    Or feel free to tell me to get lost and that this idea is senseless.

  • Interesting thought. Worth a shot... clap

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    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

  • I must say however that I really don't see much of that at this site. Other sites it is almost intolerable to bear. People seem to be more respectful here regardless of point of view and that is to me a real positive to the CatsPause people.

  • Agree. We have some debates here (sometimes they get a little heated) but people for the most part do a good job of avoiding the labels and personal attacks.

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    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

  • I would definitely classify myself as a Sunshine Pumper, so here goes. I guess mine is kind of simple. I'm not happy with the progress (or lack thereof) we've made thus far under Joker in wins and losses. I believe there were mitigating circumstances such as a lack of recruiting under Coach Brooks the last 2 years of his tenure. However, I also know that some coaches come in and do more with less and I HOPED that would be our case and it was not.

    Now, here is my philosophy... I don't like that. Frankly, it upsets me a lot. However, I also see recruiting improving, I see the devotion that Joker has to the university, AND, I believe he will grow into the job. Therefore, I don't allow myself to dwell on it, I accept it, focus on the positive,and continue to believe that this is the year that we "catch lightning in a bottle" and shock the SEC.

    Sorry, I read that and realized I didn't offer up much in the way of specifics. Specifically, I THINK I wish that Joker were more fired up on the sidelines as well. It bothers me that he is so even keel. May be a good thing, but I'd like to see him pump them up more.

    This post was edited by terryinbham 22 months ago

    SSP4L!! #GBB

  • Good post. Almost exactly how I feel.

  • I'm an optimist maybe a pumper to some. I think Joker is a great recruiter, and I think he has built a staff of tried and true recruiters. They seem to work very hard at all angles in the recruiting ranks and I trust their evaluation skills implicity. My negative comment would be, with the above statement made, I can't understand why we don't get a few high caliber kids to commit early on especially from Ohio. I don't think it's the coaches or the facilities. I don't think it's the town because it is a great place. But for some reason the Kentucky brand just doesn't grab at you in FB. Same with ILL you see the logo or the name and you just kind of shrug, and I really like their new coach too.

    Some have questioned marketing strategies and maybe that's it. I don't have an answer but somebody ought to be able to solve this dilemma. Maybe UK should spend millions on TV advertising all over the states they recruit and try to make it a household name. Its the same old problem we have always faced but there has just got to be a solution.

  • Was excited about the eating of babies, but Oh well? Here goes.

    I don't consider myself LOD, and I actually don't think most of you do either, but there def are a certain few who have labeled me as such in recent times so I'll take that angle. Personally, I consider myself a realist, and I just don't believe in denying reality for the purpose of having a message board pep-rally.

    As far as good things, I think we found a compitent QB w/ lots of potential in Max, and I really like several of our young running backs, particularly Clemons. I am also hopeful that some of our freshman wr's will show up ready to be playmakers this year, and am excited about our D-line, and the direction the overall defense is going, but I am not sure how well it will translate as awhole this season.

    Ultimately, the reason I come off negative at times is because I watch enough football to see what it takes to win. When I see UK not doing those things, It drives me crazy. It also bothers me to see guys constantly speak positive for the sake of being positive. It reminds me of concerts I went to as a kid, where the band was obviously having an off night, but all the audience acted like it was the greatest show they’d ever experienced, just because they wanted it to be great. Personally, I’m don’t enjoy mass illusion and group think for the sake of fitting in. It just makes for false hope and jaded memories.

  • Since i'm a "LOD" I will say Joker has upgraded the talent in the last couple of classes.
    So we have some talent coming up. Our defensive line finally is looking like and sec d-line. There's also young talent at qb, rb, wr, and oline. My personal opinion is that we are a couple years away from really turning the corner with all the young talent we have. With this team we should get better with every game and by the end of the year be playing really well.

  • I lean more to the Sunshine Pumper Club, mainly because that's my nature. Are there things I don't like? Absolutely, but I have followed UK football since the late 60's and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. This could be an interesting thread, and I'll bite.

    Dislikes:

    *After some moderate success under CRB, we have taken a step back. The reasons IMO in no particular order:

    No one could foresee neither of the highly rated QBs working out. Playing in the SEC without competent QB play is just brutal. Which brings me to....the QB play isn't going to be any better than the WR he is throwing to. How different would last year have been had King not fumbled after a nice gain into UaVel territory that puts us close to FG range.....had Roark hauled in that pass it the most certainly puts us in FG range....or if Robinson hangs on to the football after gaining a 1st down in the closing moments. Make 2 of those plays, and we likely win the game.

    *Weak recruiting in what are now the upper classes, and yes, Joker (as well as others) has had a hand in that.

    *The return game was just abysmal last year, and aside from Cobb & Locke, we haven't had much in the return game since Abney. Aside from McIntosh, the kicking game has been erratic at best. In short, special teams breakdowns, not limited to, but including missed/blocked FG attempts....long returns given up....and roughing the punter calls have cost us several wins over the years that would have put us in much better bowls and gaining positive exposure.

    *Questionable playcalling. In 2009 & 2010 against UT, I didn't think we put the football in Randall Cobb's hands enough at crucial times. Other calls, of course, but you're also limited by the playmakers that you have/don't have.

    *Our facilities, while good, need to be eyepopping for us to help put us over the top for some of the guys that we are now starting to compete for. When you have by far the weakest home state recruiting base in the SEC, you need every bell and whistle you can get. I believe you have to investigate every type of fundraising that you can possibly get, including something like Clempson's IPTAY. I'm sure Mitch tries, but I wish to hell we could do better.

    *Need better promotion of the sport. I went to the blue-white game year before last, and in addition to the abysmal promotion of the game, we stood in line to enter so many at a time into a little fenced in area to by what I had hoped would be some UK football gear, but instead there was a lot of leftover stuff with even some basketball stuff mixed in. The longer I stayed the madder I got and my blood pressure was sky high when I got out of there.

    *The fans...yeah...we have some great fans.....we also have a bunch who cut out early when the game is still in reach, like the people who cut out on the 7 OT Arkansas game. How embarrassing was it for Lorenzen to be seen on TV asking people where they were going and telling them they were missing a helluva game. Just like in the 2009 Arkansas game when the stadium only had about 35K or so left for the big comeback. I was there and we made more noise than the entire stadium did at the start of the game. Those are the people I want to be with.

    Now to the likes:

    *IMO this is the best recruiting staff to date. Still not getting some of the guys we need, but we are for the most part competing for better players.

    *I also think that if for whatever reasons it doesn't work out (and I badly want Joker to succeed), that the next coach will have some pretty decent talent on hand to start with.

    *I like that Max Smith probably had the best spring of a UK QB since Woodson.

    *I like that we have a stable of good RB, and 3 of them are very young.

    *I like that we seem to be in pretty decent shape at TE and Max showed he could find them in the spring.

    * I like that we actually may be pretty good up front defensively this year.

    *I like that we have Bud Dupree at LB, and he has a steady running mate in Williamson. Now if we could get some more guys like those.

    *I like what I saw from this team in the last 2 games of last year. After rolling over like a possum at Vandy, they played with a chip on their shoulder in giving UGA all they could handle and ending that horrendous 25 year streak against UT.

    I like the fact that I am now looking at 5 win seasons as step backs, because for most of my years follwing UK football, I would have considered 5 wins a success.

  • I consider myself neutral, but acknowledge that I've had numerous arguments with the more negative posters, so I'll do a negative:

    UK's administration and its apparent attitude towards the football program is disheartening, to say the least, Currently one of the only SEC (possibly the only) school(s) to not be undertaking major renovation or construction projects for football. Negative press abounds concerning facilities (comparatively speaking), not to mention the projections for the program, and for all intents and purposes the administration appears to be completely unconcerned.

    There are plenty of things that I could have pointed out as negative, but this is the one thing that bothers me more than anything else.

  • I am accused of being a sunshine pumper. This isn't the case though. I haven't met
    A person on this board who says that joker is doing a great job and should get a another year no matter what.

    What I would say the board has turned into is a group of fans who take a wait and see approach and say that there is no point to judge joker yet. The same group also tends to point to better recruiting and the fact that we had a bad stroke of luck at qb with newton being a just and moss having a bad injury. In reality this is a year of judgement for joker.

    The loder's have a boring/tired/annoying agenda that is basically this. Joker sucks, Mitch sucks. They back it up with biased and agenda laden information that is often a lie or patently false.

    The new tactic of the lod is the juvenile trademarked "passive aggressive" criticism of joker and our program and Mitch. In the last week we have seen 4 or 5 new threads based around the false premise that the "camps" haven't had elite level talent. Or that "we are offering guys with no other bcs offers". The posts are silly and annoying and drive good posters away from the board.

    In the end it is beyond annoying to listen to this. I am guilty in engaging these lies and annoying agendas. I wish I could ignore it but I care too much about the truth and out football program.

  • This is a great example of a post that is blatantly misleading and filled with falsehoods.

  • Any chance you could read the OP about the purpose of this thread? You came in to post twice, neither of which contribute to the purpose or spirit of the thread.

    For the sake of not derailing my own thread, I'm not going to argue with you about my post, but this type of thing is just as useless as the constant negative posting.

  • Lots of good stuff in your post Hoss. But I wanted to point out that I too see this as a positive.

  • Simple: BEATING LOUISVILLE GETS BACK THE FANS
    PLAY HARD AND LOSE THAT OK AS WELL
    GET BLOWNOUT AND THE PROGRAM GETS THROWN UNDER THE BUS AND FORCES BARNHART TO ACT

    already I have seen predictions of 6-6, 7-5, 8-4, and one 9-3 on here from a team that is basically very young at every position including QB. UK plays Missouri at Missouri which will be a very tough game to win and that is what it is all about. Not recruiting but wins and losses on the field now. Joker beat tennessee last year which was a good thing but people have short memories and if the season starts wth a loss that game will be quickly forgotten.

    Beat Louisville

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    The meanest dog in Taiwan.

  • I wouldn't say I'm in either group but I'll do both of things.

    Bad: I think we as a whole has not done enough to push us further, we miss on a prime chance when things were looking better to cash in and do a lot of things needed. We seem lost more times than not last year. Play calling on offense has been a very questionably. Seems we have an alumni that doesn't want to buy into making the program where it could be, fans want to run away if things are seeming bleak.

    Good: Recruiting is improving, slowly but at least it's being done legit. An actually head coach that wants this to be his dream job instead as a stepping stone towards something else(Nothing against Brooks but we all knew he wouldn't be here long enough to do what he really wanted but at least he gave us some stability). Young talented roster that could be very good in a year or two. If the offense is anything close to the spring game, it'll be way better than last year. A d-line that seems to be a lot closer to everyone else in the SEC.

    Who really knows what this year is going to look like but we'll find out in September. I think everyone really needs to put on there rally caps on and just support the players, it makes a lot difference at the end.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by morbidky84 22 months ago

    I don't always post but when I do, I try to make things interesting

  • Glad to participate. As someone with a somewhat critical attitude toward the status of the program and pessimistic outlook for the 2012 season, I can discuss a couple of highlights that encourage me.

    First is the recruitment and development of running backs the last few years. Very impressive too me in back to back classes for this staff to sign a Clemons & Caffey (even though he has moved to the secondary) and then come back and sign Taylor and Mobley. Plus the development of a former walkon (still one, not sure?) in CoshiK Williams and former recruits George & Sanders. With so many bodies depth nor injuries shouldnt be a problem at that position now and in the future. And with so much competition it should bring out the very best in whoever wins the starting job comming out of August.

    Second is the recruitment on the defensive line. Without question that is the single position that separates the SEC from the rest of college football. I'm very happy with our recruitment the last few classes, we are getting some big athletic talented bodies in so that we should have more depth and players for the D line than at any time I can remember for this program. Wish things coulda worked out with Pearson, but that is his own fault, and I hope the rumors are true that Daniel Ross will get qualified and enroll this December and that we bring back David Washington from juco into this next signing class.

  • Up until the last 1.5 years I think I always feel into the, "Sunshine pumper" crowd but for a few reasons and for the sake of this discussion I'll go from the LOD POV even though I don't think I'm quiet to that degree. Leaning there, but not yet.

    I like the front 4 for this coming season. UK has done a good job getting the run stuffers needed to win SEC games. I think they have some DE's who can come off the edge and get sacks/QB hurries.

    I like the last years class. To me, a great example of building, "inside-out" in regards to winning.

    They have a nice stable of RB's. Towles, IMO has the chance to be a very good SEC QB in time.

    I think the Admin has made some nice, "behind the scenes" facility upgrades in regards to locker rooms, etc. I just wish they would be more proactive in sharing that with the fan base.

    I think Mitch is very PRO football. I just think he has to battle some elements out of his control and that hurts UK in some regards. I do believe if Mitch thinks Joker is his guy then for him to please extend his contract sooner than later and help Joker in recruiting so opposing coaches can't use his status against him.

  • Get lost... this idea is senseless.

    biggrin

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  • Man you are right on the money with these two paragraphs. Truly excited about the Dline especially if we can add Ross and Washington. At the moment our Dline already looks like one of the most talented we've had in a while. Adding those two guys would take it over the top. We've got some guys that can play right away and we've got some monsters that might need a little development.

  • Having just given up season tix after 39 years, I guess by default I am a LOD (although optimism must have kept me going back for more for nearly four decades)

    I think our front four on defense will be pretty good, and the young LBs may surprise us, they were HS running backs and safeties so should have plenty of speed. Minter showed me v. Ole Miss, Ga, and Tenn that he knows what he is doing. Thus I think our defense alone will at least keep us more competitive than last year, i.e., I will be surprised if we suffer the same 54-3, 48-10 and 38-8 type blowouts.

    On offense, we have a real good nucleus of young RBs, and an excellent placekicker.

    Sorry, thats all I got. shrug

  • Me too twhit, I just wish people didn't sometimes take information and twist it or spin it out of context... Just because a person gives credit to a coach like Franklin doesn't mean that person hates UK and loves Vandy or that person is a member of the LOD... Some of us should try to be alittle more open minded when someone uses Franklin as a example of a coach that is doing a good job because he is... Anytime a coach can come in and make a team 217 yards a game better all the way around deserves alittle credit AT TIMES. Now I didn't say I think people should just talk about Vandy all day, or say they will best us by 4 td's again... I just wish we could stop the bickering especailly when it's just because one of us doesn't agree and i'm not just talking about those who have pretty much told me to shut up for saying "I wish we could land a athletic 225-235# ILB" I include myself as well... This site has some great members...

    This post was edited by todd 22 months ago