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How did this happen? I thought we were bringing in better talent? Coaches that needed to be replaced had been. I really don't understand. Is the talent really not an upgrade? Is the staff truly that inept? Like most on this board, I didn't expect to play in the title game this year when Joker took over 3 years ago. However, I had hoped he would at least sustain Brooks success and maybe compete for the east crown in year 5 or 6 of Joker's tenure. Everyone knew UL would get better and the series would be very competitive, I think its unreal to expect to beat them every year but we didn't even make a game out of it. Now WKU has beaten us, so what is next? How long will it take to get this program where it is competitive again?
Never forget, this whole unvraveling is due to Rich Brooks having 2 poor recruiters as assistant coaches.
Apparently more than 2..
We hired someone as coach we should not have, someone not capable of building an SEC program (or even sustaining a 6-6/7-5 program). simple as that. Any upgrades in recruiting was false, was not true, just propaganda from a certain segment of the fanbase accurately described with a nickname involving the star that our planet revolves around.
Bottom line is Vandy and the Miss teams are now better and have went all in, they have young up and coming HC's that can recruit and universities that can get upgrades to keep them climbing. I know Vandy's facilities are still behind ours but I look for Miss St to really take off similar to South Carolina now that they are planning huge facility upgrades... Mitch and Co have put to much of our resources into the smaller non profit sports and not the bread winner. Those that have a say must also not care much about FB, that has had to play a role in our demise. Something needs to be done, some say we will never have a good FB program but I don't buy that, our fan base wants a good FB program if Mitch can't make it happen he should be judged same as Joker, we are in the SEC not C-USA or Big east... The SEC plays FB.
This post was edited by todd 19 months ago
RB coach: Larry brinson 2007-2010
2007: no targets or commits
2008: commits(1): Osaze Idumwonyi
2009: Commits(3) Ryan mosby, Ryann Mossakowski, Dakotah Tyler
2010: zero commits
DC: Steve Brown
2003-2005: No commits or targets
2006: 1 commit, chris drayton
2007 2 commits, Jake lanefski, Shane McCord
2008 1 commit, Trevino Woods
2009-2011: no commits
OL coach: Jimmy Heggins
2005: no commits
2006: 1 commit TC Drake
2007: 3 commits Taiedo smith, Ronnie Sneed, Josh Winchell
2008: 1 commit, Matt Smith
2009: 2 commits Jarvis and Myron Walker
ST coach: Steve Ortmayer
2003-2005 Zero commits
2006 4 commits: Chris Cessna, Ricky Lumpkin, Lones Seiber, Paul Warford
2007: 2 commits, Brad Durham, Josh Winchell
2008: 2 commits William Johnson, Deaunte Mason
2009: 3 commits Chris Matthews, Josh Morgan, Larry Warford
DL coach: Rick Perti
2005: no commits
2006: 1 commit, Jamil Paris
2007: No commits
2008: 2 commits Eric Adeyemi, Danny Trevathan
2009-2011 at uk and 2012-2013 at duke: no commits
DB coach: Chris Thurmond
2009: Anthony Kendrick
Now lets have some fun:
HCoftheO/WR coach: Joker Phillips
2006: 17 commits, including Micah Johnson, Corey Peters, Calvin Harrison
2007: 9 commits, including Mychal Bailey, Randall Burden, Stuart Hines, Tydlacka
2008: 11 commits, including Boyd, EJ Fields, Winston Guy, Gene McCaskill, Cartier Rice, Matt roark, Donte Rumph, Matt Smith, Collins ukwu, Taylor Wyndham
2009: 10 commits, including mister cobble, kevin mitchell, morgan newton, ridge wilson
2010: 7 commits.
QB coach: Randy Sanders
2007: 4 commits, Anthony Mosley, Kyrus Lanxter
2008: 1 commit, Randall cobb
2009: no commits
2010: 4 commits, Avery Williamson, Ray sanders, Tyler Robinson, Jabari johnson
2011: 4 commits, Christian Coleman, Alvin Dupree, Shaq love, Max smith, Darrell Warren
2012: 2 commits, Shawn Blaylock, DeMarcus Sweat
2013: 1 commit Reese Phillips
LB coach: Chuck Smith
2006: 3 commits, Chirs cessna, Mike Hartline, Josh Minton
2007: 1 commit, Billy Joe Murphy
2008: 3 commits, Chandler Burden, EJ fields, Winston Guy
2009: 4 commits, Jordan Aumiller, Morgan Newton, Sam Simpson, Dakotah, Tyler
2010: 4 commits, Tyler Brause, Mike Douglas, Teven Eatmon, Alex Smith
2011: 2 commits, Darrian Miller, Zach West
2012: 5 commits, Josh Harris, Landston Newton, Jon Reed, Jon Toth, Patrick Towles
Sorry for the long post.
So, Larry Brinson 4 years, 4 commits. No impact guys, Tyler was a shared recruitment; Poor recruiter
Steve Brown 8 years, 4 commits, best one, Trevino Woods; Poor recruiter
Jimmy Heggins 5 years , 7 commits best, Ronnie Sneed, shared Matt Smith; Poor recruiter
Steve Ortameyer 7 years, 11 commits best, Chris Matthews, Shared Larry Warford; Argueable
Rick Petri 8 years at UK, 3 commits, best, Danny Trevanthan; Poor Recruiter
Chris Thrumond 3 years at UK, 1 commit, Anthony Kendrick, yet to contribute; Poor recruiter.
So that is 5 poor recruits and Ortameyer.
in 2006, Joker recruited 55% of the entire class.
in 2008, Joker recruited 52% of the entire class.
in 2009, joker recruited 36% of the entire class, and with Randy and Chuck, they recruited 64% of the class.
That is too much burden for Joker and/or Randy and Chuck to bear.
OK so Joker is responsible for the talent level in the program along with Sanders and Smith. You can't have it both ways.
If you are going by the rivals.com/recruiting info for who is responsible for our recruits then you need to educate yourself.
Joker was the head coach in waiting the last 2 years...this excuse is getting old...
What it means is joker, sanders, and smith were the ONLY people recruiting. That means you don't have the time to focus on better recruits because you have to fill numbers. That is the point i am making.
Please educate me then. That is the best source I have available, if you can do better, then DO IT.
I think that was sarcasm from minter.
Hey, that is not a slam toward you and I do respect your research...I've done the same thing through the years.
Brooks brought kids into the program by committee. it didn't matter who recruited who, it was basically a vote by the staff and majority took the prospect. Sure, Joker shows up as the lead recruiter on many of our prospects but he was basically a guy who was good at the point of contact and therefore led to the staff making a determination on who to bring in.
Basically, Rivals shows guys as lead recruiters as they were the initial point of contact for most of the prospects; I'm just saying don't let the Rivals info lead you into believing that Joker Phillips was traveling 5k miles per week recruiting these guys.
One more thing, look at the Rivals major talent we have lost over the last three years...CJP was listed as the primary recruiter for those guys but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was the sole recruiter.
It's all FUBAR to me. Like I said earlier, don't believe what some 23yo Rivals recruiting nerd displays as gospel, it's not true.
I accept what you have said, but it is the only source we fans have. Also i hate rivals, but see first sentence, i'm 22, and it isn't the gospel to me. We clearly disagree on many things so i will stop commenting on your posts.
I think maybe something is being forgotten here. Maybe it's not the recruits and recruiters. Maybe it's that Brooks had the ability to coach up the players and develop them into better players while Joker hasn't shown that ability.
Thats obviously the case but its been said before. We don't just wanna go back to the Brooks era all over again either. We need a coach that can push us beyond that after a couple years. To do that we need recruits and recruiters.
I'll be the first to admit I don't follow the football program as much as many of you do. Of course you need good recruiters and recruits. Are the players we've recruited after Brooks been of a lesser caliber than those recruited during Brooks? I'm thinking, no. It seems Brooks recruited mostly 2 and 3 stars with a 4 star thrown in from time to time. That's about what Joker has done isn't it? If I'm wrong about that I'll take your guys word for it.
Right now I'm not worrying about getting past what Brooks accomplished. I'd settle for not getting shoved around the field like a bunch of pansies.
I am coming to the conclusion this is an impossible scenario and we have experienced our high water mark in the SEC. The gap between UK and the mid-tier of UK is growing further apart not closer together in the foundations of the program. Soon the SEC will go to a nine game schedule. If we don't change conferences we are always going to be stuck battling Vandy for the basement. It's not a coach, it's not in-state talent, it's not money, it's not facilities, pee wee football...it's all of it. I am FINALLY ready to face facts and admit we are not an SEC football university and we NEVER will be. Do we continue to let them beat our brains out or do we go find immediate and sustainable success elsewhere? I vote for moving on.
I am slipping into troll mode...I feel it overcoming me....I am powerless to stop it...beware of excessive agenda postings!
Maybe that will be our fate. Can't say I'm real confident that it won't be. Would love to wake up one day at the end of the season and hear we hired a big time coach. Hopefully the money that might be coming to renovate Commonwealth will be a good start. Hell who knows. My brain feels like a fish bowl trying to keep up with it half the time.
A '*' marks a coaching change.
2009 record 0–12 (0–8 SBC)
2010 record 2–10 (2–6 SBC)*
2011 record 7–5 (7–1 Sun Belt)
2012 record 2-1 (0-0 SBC)
2009 record 4–8 (1–6 Big East)
2010 record 7–6 (3–4 Big East)*
2011 record 7–6 (5–2 Big East)
2012 record 3-0 (0-0 Big East)*
2008 record 5–7 (2–6 SEC)*
2009 record 8–5 (3–5 SEC)
2010 record 10–3 (6–2 SEC)
2011 record 11–2 (6–2 SEC)
2009 record 7–6 (3–5 SEC)
2010 record 6–7 (2–6 SEC)*
2011 record 5–7 (2–6 SEC)
2012 record 1-2 (0-0 SEC)
Where's RV and Messenger? They still saying "everything is fine" and "people are too negative"? LoL
I think it isn't just about the quality of recruits and who recruited them, but also how many we retained.
We have had a ton of attrition out of the 2008 and 2009 classes that have left the team lacking of juniors and seniors now. The question is why? Granted some of these were over recruited and others left for other reasons. Coaching changes usually follow by the loss of some players but you would think the CIW thing would have mitigated that.
How much of the responsibility for the lack of quality juniors and players form the rosters is on the shoulders of Joker and his staff is an open topic. Is it just circumstances he inherited or, is it something to do with his management of the program, or recruiting misses? That should be looked at further before dropping the ax IMO.
"Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra
The money isn't that far off. Spurrier make $2m & Joker $1.7 & Petrino was @ $2.7. Probably another $1.25 to get the "big name" and staff. It could happen.
Saban($6m) & Miles($4m) are ridiculously over paid by their state. A is coach Calipari.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by James Mahoney 19 months ago
We can pay a coach whatever we need to. Thats not the issue.
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