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Its amazing to see the use of hindsight in many of these critical posts of uk football. We really have a very vocal portion of our fanbase that has no basis in reality in their discussions of uk football. It is a 100% irrational discussion. What I can't figure out is this. Are you guys just not bright, intentionally lying or really this uninformed?
Most of the posts that are critical of Barnhart are filled with complete falsehoods. The first post in this thread is a joke and is a perfect example of this.
The problem is this. I can deal with people having questions about football. What is beyond annoying is the fact that every thread about Barnhart or football turns Into these juvenile threads full of lies.
Please put a stop to this mods...
This post was edited by hoptownukfan 2 years ago
Jeff - I agree Beamer is the model. It is definitely tougher to build a program in the SEC versus the Big East, but you are right the strategy is sound. Beamer was not very successful until his 7th year at V'Tech. We don't have that much time in this day and age. Joker is under the gun and really needs to win now. The other hope we have if Joker can't get it done is a guy like Neal Brown. But he has yet to get a head coaching job. There just isn't a huge KY coaching tree as there is not a huge KY recruiting base. Let's hope Joker makes it work.
I agree that they are going to have to overpay for an established coach but that is the cost of the job. We certainly over paid to get Cal and Rick to come to UK. Both men have been at the very top of college basketball coaches in reimbursement while in Lexington. We overpaid for Gillispie and Smith. It costs a lot to bring in people who understand the challenges and how the game really works. We brought in a great front man once in Curry but then didn't give him the staff he needed to succeed so it is tough. I think too much is made of the talent base. It helps to be in Georgia but everyone recruits regionally now and there are only 14 teams in the SEC and a lot of kids who want in. So it costs a lot but the return in finances is considerable in my opinion. That return is about to be highlighted with ticket sales the next year and while some may choose to dispute it but I agree with Harry Lancaster that AD's don't fire coaches, empty seats do.
As to the second point, I understand the thought but in today's society I doubt you will see as many coaches stick at the same school for 20 years like Beamer, Bryant, and Paterno. I would be interested in seeing the average tenure of coaches over the past 5-7 years and I will bet it is much shorter than in the past. Even elite coaches like Saban, Miles, Spurier, Meyers and others move around these days so I think that is the norm instead of the exception. I also see schools changing coaches and programs continuing to win. I sincerely believe that if we had a guy come in and build up the program to the point that we were really competitive that we could find a way to keep him or replace him with another quality coach. Lexington is a nice town with a rabid fan base. If you get over the hump you can have a good program.
I just think that our fear of possibly losing a possible successful coach is flawed timid thinking and an excuse. It is like the dilemma that most of us faced in high school about being afraid to ask out the pretty girl because she might say no. I wanted Joker to have this job as much as anyone but he hasn't performed well and continues to not understand what his job is all about. Now he is turning up on everyone's list of hot seats or worst coaches. This isn't rocket science and it clearly is not the job for a first time head coach. If they want to do it we all know how to fix it. Making it into a mystery is just obfuscation. UK probably doesn't have the resources at this point and a lot of football money is being shared with the non-revenues which are thriving (same dynamic there, outspend the competition and you will get the people to win). A lot of football fans feel that the powers at UK are happy with the football team getting by enough to sell seats and promote the total sports (Capital One Trophy) package. It is not crazy but I don't know if it will be financially viable much longer. Maybe Joker will win big. I really like the staff he has put together and feel it is the absolute best he could hire. Most of the guys are here for personal reasons instead of football so they really care. They deserve to win. So do we.
Mitch is a politician, short and simple. He's starting to distance himself from Joker with comments like this because of the likely need to make a change at HC after this season.
That said, I know a former National Championship coach that would come here, has won multiple SEC titles, recruits like a fiend, and UK wouldn't have to overpay him. It is doubtful that he would leave until he retires or is fired. Y'all want that guy?
On point (A), UK has the money to overpay for a "big name coach", Barnhart has said on Jones show twice now that paying for coaches is no problem whatsoever. And he has no choice but to say that, saying otherwise would be a blatant lie given the richness now and even moreso in the future of the SEC TV contracts (driven by football). Wasnt Brooks salary his last season or two right at or above $2 million? Granted I and every other UK fan love the man and appreciate his hard work, but is it that unreasonable then to say a bigger name coach who is younger and has more winning seasons on his resume should and could be payed $3 million plus by us?
And on your point (B), see I read and hear that theory all the time. Because of course it is only a theory, we have never experienced this theoretical frightening scenario. Not counting the Bear Morriss situation, of course. Sad fact is UK football has never in its past hired a bigtime coach who came here and won and was then coveted and stolen away from us by a real football school. How do we know that is what would happen until we try it?
We aren't (or shouldn't be if the program is operated properly) Louisville, permanent training ground for coaches with bigger career aspirations, we are a state university in the best conference in the land. Yeah yeah yeah, basketball state, basketball school....but we've all seen that winning football will be embraced, winning coaches hailed and rewarded. Remember the love Mumme got early in his flameout? How CM used his 5-6 first season as an excuse to expand/improve Commonwealth? How Woodson and Tamme and Burton and Stevie were state heroes for the 2007 season?
So Joker is on his training wheels, we hope he develops into what clearly he was not his first 2 years here and becomes an SEC head football coach. What if that doesnt happen this season, what then? You folks gonna stick with plan (B)? Is Barnhart? Will there be a Mike Pratt-like intervention to hire the best damn coach possible, don't do so from fear expressed in the plan (B)?
This post was edited by JHB4UK 2 years ago
OK I will take the bait. Who are you talking about DA?
Follow me on twitter @ TailgatingCzar
The Phat Phil'ed one
Yes, Fulmer. I used to be adamantly against it, but the more I think about it... The guy knows how to run a program, something UK desparately needs.
Seriously DA?! Don't think I would agree about that one. I rather go down a Kirby Smart route then the Fulmer route.
I agree with the last part about Joker and finding "UK's Frank Bamer". That is the plan and hopefully that's how it works out.
I disagree about the elite coach leaving after one season or "eye-popping season".
Winning games and making it to BCS Bowl games would help attract Big money donors. Let's say a coach like Saban, just as the example, came here and won 10 games & a BCS Bowl his second season. Had a repeat the second year and won the SEC East. IMHO you would see more people willing to dig deeper into their pockets for projects that are needed.
My hope is that Joker gets it done. It's truly whats best for the program and IMHO he's a couple steps closer to breaking the door down to a winning more games in the SEC.
One is revamping the offense and another is bringing in a Asst. Coach that's got outstanding recruiting ties in Florida.
I takes a lot to contort your mind around it, but once you do you can see that Phil brings a lot of the things to the table that UK needs the most. I'm scared to death to hire someone that hasn't had HC experience.
Fulmer? IDK about that.
Joker is the man for the long haul but something feels off about the Asst. Coaches. IMHO we need a tweak or two? We'll know more after the first game vs UL.
A. Stop screaming at me lol.
B. I didn't say anything about MB being a bad AD. I admit that in the past I've not liked some things about MB but I also admitted that I was 100% wrong about the man and believe he's doing a fantastic job.
I'm just tired of excuses when it comes to UK building a winner in FB. How many years does it take? It takes the right coach with the right scheme, IMO. Hopefully Joker is that Coach because like others have stated he would our Frank Beamer.
Wow Hop, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but where do you get off calling me a liar? People like you sling false accusations at others, but rarely do I see you back up your side of the argument with any facts. Maybe your elders never explained that old saying about opinions to you.
Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you'd at least be so kind as to point out my LIE in the original post, cause I'd really like to know what it is. And thanks for the downvote. Good thing I don't base my self worth on how many stars I have on a message board cause my self esteem would be up and down every week.
Phil Fulmer, I presume?
Don't hold your breath Catmando, that is Hop's standard comedy act. Calling intelligent fact based posts as "no basis in reality" but not having the balls to actually provide counterpoints of what isnt true. Pure clown show.
Of course it is a mortal sin to try and compare sports like this, but take Billy Donovan...he won big at a non-basketball school, but they rewarded him enough that he has resisted offers from places that are more basketball-centric. Why couldn't that happen here with UK football....not someone winning 2 Nat'l titles of course, that ain't happening in a million years.....but winning big and making Lexington his home? Of course Billy D wasn't a "big name" hire for them in the first place. The UK equivalent would be a Sonny Dykes or Mark Hudspeth or Mario Cristobol.
It can happen.
If Joker doesn't work out, and I want to clarify that I 100% hope and pray he does, the next hire must be dead on the mark. And I believe Mitch would do it based on his other hires.
Are you really going to go there?
UF basketball compared to UK football? Really? Come on now...
UF BB has all the money they want given to them thanks to one of the most profitable athletic universities in the game. Their Athletics earns tons of money and they have donors falling over themselves to give them money.
Florida weather compared to Kentucky weather
Florida recruiting base
No pressure on Donovan at all in Florida. He can go to the NIT 4 years in a row and their fans won't care because they love FOOTBALL.
2-3 recruits can make a difference in BB. Football takes far more than that to make a difference.
I could go on, but it's pointless cause you can not under any logical argument compare Donovan staying at Florida to an up and coming coach coming to UK and potentially staying.
Fulmer would be Bill Curry part II. NO THANKS!
It absolutely can't be laid out any better than that. The logic is extremely sound. I've been down with this plan from the beginning. Thanks for this post Jeff.
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