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Football recruiting

  • PAX, you've got the same mentality I do about it. Compared to 50-60, 30-40 is a different class of athlete.

    Just as an example, in 2011, Arkansas went 10-2 with losses to Bama and LSU. Their previous four recruiting rankings?

    2007: 31
    2008: 36
    2009: 16
    2010: 49

    Being in this range, so long as we don't miss or under-recruit important areas (cough, OL), will at least give us the horses to compete. And that's why I can be positive going forward. Edit: Because even the 16th ranked class in the nation is good enough for just 7th in the SEC.[i]

    [i]Edit: Rankings are from Rivals

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by JDHLaw11 2 years ago

  • docjmrmd said... (original post)

    You are over reading again. No one has discussed one of the guys, some of the guys, etc. Thats not the discussion. We want to be optimistic about the majority of players as a whole, ie team rankings. Thats a little more difficult to do.

    Sorry if I'm misunderstand, but are you saying that you're less concerning about the ability of the recruits and more concerned about the ranking given the class by Rivals, Scout, 247, or ESPN?

    I'm not saying I'm only considering "some" of the recruits, I'm saying someone looking for reasons to be optimistic should look at each individual recruit (or current underclassmen), and if unable to find at least "some" of them who are exciting for the future, there's not much else that will convince you.

  • PAXCAT said... (original post)

    Great post. Recruiting is better but it hasn't gotten us out of the SEC basement. Granted, instead of having classes ranked in the 45-60 range, I think last years class and this year is somewhere around 30-40. Again, that is still good for last in the SEC but it's not last by a million miles. It at least gives us a chance, if Joker can get to a bowl in 2012, somehow regain the fan's confidence and not be labeled a "lame duck coach" then recruting will get better from here on out.

    This. I am in now way "satisfied" with our recruiting, past or present, but there is no denying that it has gotten significantly better over the last 2-3 yrs. I still don't buy the excuses that you can't recruit better than this at UK, but things certainly aren't bad enough right now to act like the recruiting ship is sinking. Now, if you show our class to educated fans of most other SEC schools, yeah...they would laugh at the class as a whole on paper, but you can't look at players like Towles, Mobley, Watson, Chapman, Pearson, Ross, Sweat, all 3 Blaylocks, Pancho Thomas, Tiller and Legree and not like what you see. Now, if we can get all of those guys on campus and add some more playmakers down the stretch, we will have a solid (not "good" by most SEC standards, but good compared to our last few) class to build on when added to last year's class.

  • MinterWonderlnd said... (original post)

    "We will be fine."

    Out of curiosity, how many years have you said or thought that about uk football recruiting? On the first wednesday of each and every February, uk has finished near the very bottom of the sec in recruiting rankings. That will be the case again this year. Conversely, after the final game of each regular season, uk is at or near the bottom of the conference standings. That was again the case this past season. So, why would anyone assume that "we will be fine"? I'm really not trying to be mean or a jerk. I just simpy can't process how and why people would assume the conference standings are going to magically change while the recruiting rankings stay the same? Many uk fans have seemingly been trying to convince themselves of this for decades.

    Only a few times. You'd be naive to deny that it hasn't been better in the last few years and if you do, it's because you believe rankings from guys that have never coached in their lives instead of the talent displayed.

    @JEdwar247

  • docjmrmd said... (original post)

    Only a few times. You'd be naive to deny that it hasn't been better in the last few years and if you do, it's because you believe rankings from guys that have never coached in their lives instead of the talent displayed.

    If that were truly the case, why did we start a walk on at PK, TE, safety and RB for much of the year? That is four spots of the 24 regulars. Plus seemingly our only decent backup at the five offensive line positions was a true freshman.

  • PAXCAT said... (original post)

    Great post. Recruiting is better but it hasn't gotten us out of the SEC basement. Granted, instead of having classes ranked in the 45-60 range, I think last years class and this year is somewhere around 30-40. Again, that is still good for last in the SEC but it's not last by a million miles. It at least gives us a chance, if Joker can get to a bowl in 2012, somehow regain the fan's confidence and not be labeled a "lame duck coach" then recruting will get better from here on out.

    I've tried to make this point for years. Where Kentucky ranks in the SEC alone does not show the entire picture. UK could be 12th in the league with a class ranked 35th or ranked 60th nationally. Obviously there is a difference there. It has always been my opinion that UK needs to get somewhere around Top 25-30 nationally. If we can do that on a consistent basis, we will build the depth to be competitive in conference. There really isn't that much difference between the 20th ranked class and the 30th ranked class. When you factor in team needs and evaluator bias, either one could be better than the other. Rankings are not an exact science, but give a good general estimate of what to expect. Kentucky is not going to start outrecruiting Alabama and LSU anytime soon. However, as long as we can get classes that are in the Top 25 -30 nationally, we will have talent on our team. At that point, one or two dynamic players can make all the difference in the world. Had Kentucky signed 4 top 30 classes in a row and then signed Tim Couch, that team would have been able to beat anyone on a given day. The key is to have a solid foundation at all positions, then one or two superstars can take you from 6-6 to 10-2.

    This post was edited by Lapcat86 2 years ago

  • Because most of realize this isnt a short dash, its a long journey. If you see improvement every year things will begin to come together. I think we all realize that recruiting improvement is the most important thing to advance UK. So we are improving every year. We were two plays away from being 6-6 and a bowl. Even after SOME PEOPLE claimed that recruits were gonna be jumping off the ship, recruits actually declared their allegiance even more. I think most realize that this is a make or break time so to speak. The optimistic ones just hope we pull through it and we are willing to give these kids a chance. It takes time to improve, like most including myself, want. Recruiting has improved and IMO so has the coaching. Lets give these guys a couple years before we throw them under the bus.

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  • Tskware said... (original post)

    If that were truly the case, why did we start a walk on at PK, TE, safety and RB for much of the year? That is four spots of the 24 regulars. Plus seemingly our only decent backup at the five offensive line positions was a true freshman.

    Because 08 and 09 recruiting classes were flat out bad. Yes I know Joker was on staff but he didnt recruit them all. This is per rivals...

    2008

    Recruit /No Longer on team / Recruiter
    Eric Adeyemi / No longer / Rick Petri
    Aaron Boyd / Joker
    Chandler Burden / Chuck Smith
    Randall Cobb / Randy Sanders
    EJ Fields / Joker and Chuck
    Winston Guy / Joker and Chuck
    Osaze Idumwonyi / No longer / Larry Brinson
    William Johnson /No longer / Steve Ortmayer
    Deaunte Mason / No longer / Steve Ortmayer
    Gene McCaskill / Joker
    Cartier Rice / Joker
    Matt Roark / Joker
    Donte Rumph / Joker
    Matt Smith / Jimmy Heggins and Joker
    Sean Stackhouse / No longer / David Lockwood
    Danny Trevathan / Rick Petri
    Collins UKwu / Joker
    Dave Ulinksi No longer / Joker
    Trevino Woods / Steve Brown
    Taylor Wyndham / Joker

    Out of 20 commits 5 are no longer on the roster or playing. Joker recruited one of those and he had to quit because of injuries.

    2009

    Brian Adams / Joker
    Jordan Aumiller / Chuck
    Justin Bean / No longer / Joker
    Mr. Cobble / Joker
    Mark Crawford / Not listed
    DeQuin Evans / Steve Ortmayer
    Jonathan George / Not listed
    Qua Huzzie / No longer / Joker
    Tristian Johnson / Joker
    Anthony Kendrick / Chris Thurmond
    LaRod King / Not listed
    Patrick Ligon / Not listed
    Chris Matthews / Steve Ortmayer
    Demetri Merritt / No longer / Joker
    Kevin Mitchell Joker
    Ryan Mosby / No longer / Larry Brinson
    Ryan Mossakowski / No longer / Larry Brinson
    Martavius Neloms / Not listed
    Morgan Newton / Joker and Chuck
    Donte Rumph again / Joker
    Donald Russell / No longer / Not listed
    Sam Simpson / Chuck
    Dakotah Tyler / No longer /Chuck and Larry Brinson
    Jarvis Walker /No longer / Jimmy Heggins
    Myron Walker / No longer / Jimmy Heggins
    Larry Warford / Steve Ortmayer
    Ridge Wilson / Joker

    Out of 27 commits 9 either didnt make it to campus or are no longer with the team. That is 14 players out of 47. Add in the fact that several didnt translate to the college game ala Aaron Boyd and you have what we have now. A tough time with depth and playmaking ability.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Warmother51 2 years ago

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  • Warmother51 said... (original post)

    Because 08 and 09 recruiting classes were flat out bad. Yes I know Joker was on staff but he didnt recruit them all.

    I don't remember, but did anybody think they were "bad" at the time?

    It seems to me people are usually optimistic about recruiting while it is going on (see the many "recruiting is better now" responses on this and other threads) but it just seems like a year or two goes by and suddenly the optimism we had for that class disappears.

    I guess I'm getting more of the "don't judge a class for a few years" mindset now, which is understandable, but I am curious about what we (or others) thought THEN about classes we NOW think were bad.

  • There was a lot of hope bringing in guys like Aaron Boyd and EJ Fields in 08. Then in 09 there was Moss and Newt along with several guys on defense. I dont think anyone thought these were superstar classes but there was some talent. Unfortunately that didnt transfer to the college level and most guys got passed up or left.

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  • A great deal of the uk eternal optimists were telling us how good recruiting was in 08 and 09. There hasn't been a single class in the last 6-7 yrs where the people whom are defending today's recruiting were at the time commenting that rich brooks and his staff dropped the ball in those particular classes. It was mostly "we'll be fine". "I trust the coaches talent evaluation skills more than some recruiting rankings smankings.". Every year the rallying cry has been we're taking baby steps in recruiting, while our conference peers and in-state rival are taking giant leaps.

  • Most people have a tendency to always go Rivals first, but didn't they change the scoring system they use in their team rankings a yr or so ago? If I'm not mistaken isn't the national staff for 247, what used to be Rivals before Yahoo bought it out? If so, shouldn't we look at 247 team rankings as what we traditionally looked at Rivals as? Sure, there has probably been some tweaks since those days to 247's current system as well; but it would seem the 247 rankings would more accurately (if that's possible with recruiting) reflect how the class is stacking up. Since Rivals changed their team ranking system, our classes have fallen off the charts, but yet we've stayed consistently in the upper 20's through the 30's range with the other services. At least to me, that would indicate that Rivals current system has some drastic flaws in it. And the last time I looked at the 247 rankings (about 2 weeks ago) we were about mid 30s, good for about 10th in our new conf alignment ahead of Mizzou and Ole Miss.

  • Usually I try to stick to 247 but in going back to 08-09 I went with rivals.

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  • Makes sense there. Obviously before 247 was around and the change at Rivals.

  • MinterWonderlnd said... (original post)

    A great deal of the uk eternal optimists were telling us how good recruiting was in 08 and 09. There hasn't been a single class in the last 6-7 yrs where the people whom are defending today's recruiting were at the time commenting that rich brooks and his staff dropped the ball in those particular classes. It was mostly "we'll be fine". "I trust the coaches talent evaluation skills more than some recruiting rankings smankings.". Every year the rallying cry has been we're taking baby steps in recruiting, while our conference peers and in-state rival are taking giant leaps.

    Man, I hate those stupid optimists. I wish everyone would just realize everything is bad, all the time. I'm so much happier that way.

    By the way, you're wrong, but broad, sweeping, incorrect statements seem to be a common theme of your posts.

  • docjmrmd said... (original post)

    Rivals

    There's your problem. As soon as you can tell me the complicated algorithm that Rivals uses to determine these rankings, I will give them credibility. Until then, they get none from me. How is it that after the top few schools there is always such a huge discrepancy between Rivals and everyone else? I choose to follow Scout, because they have actually released how they determine these things and it's pretty cut and dry. According to them, we have made pretty drastic improvements in recruiting over the last few years. From mid to late 50s to 30s. Thats without the same drastic improvement on the field. I think things are going to have to improve on the field a little more before another jump can be made.

    This post was edited by MossCat15 2 years ago

  • Warmother51 said... (original post)

    Because most of realize this isnt a short dash, its a long journey. If you see improvement every year things will begin to come together. I think we all realize that recruiting improvement is the most important thing to advance UK. So we are improving every year. We were two plays away from being 6-6 and a bowl. Even after SOME PEOPLE claimed that recruits were gonna be jumping off the ship, recruits actually declared their allegiance even more. I think most realize that this is a make or break time so to speak. The optimistic ones just hope we pull through it and we are willing to give these kids a chance. It takes time to improve, like most including myself, want. Recruiting has improved and IMO so has the coaching. Lets give these guys a couple years before we throw them under the bus.

    Two plays from being 6-6 and a bowl. That for sure is the optimistic view and is much appreiated by the fans with low expectations. Nothing wrong with that at most schools but we are an SEC school. Question:

    How many years and how many players and how many plays til we are 8-9-10 wins? And how many bad years are you willing to accept? This is and has always been the questions surrounding UK football. My biggest complaint is with such low expectations that is were we will always stay, a bottom tier SEC team with 6 wins and occasional upset and thats it. I don't think that is the way to build a program if that is the point of the exercise. If the goal for the fans is a 6 win season and a minor bowl that will become the coaching staff's and players goal as well. The media also plays into the 6 win game by being "bowl eligable" as the Holy Grail .The path of least resistence will become the norm IMHO.

    I want better than that no matter who is coaching. My biggest fear is that with the Louisville game being first up next year that the importance of a win in Louisville is almost a have to win.

    This post was edited by mrhotdice 2 years ago

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  • I think we're recruiting more solid players who will provide us better depth than we've had in the past as in more 3 star player. I'm still not sure whether or not we're recruiting enough true difference makers 4 and 5 star players. Matter of fact I'm sure we're not based on our competition. Now will that change anytime soon? NO. Do I know of a coach out there that could change it overnight? NO. Will I completely support the leadership and the players we have in place? You better believe it.

  • JDHLaw11 said... (original post)

    Man, I hate those stupid optimists. I wish everyone would just realize everything is bad, all the time. I'm so much happier that way.

    By the way, you're wrong, but broad, sweeping, incorrect statements seem to be a common theme of your posts.

    Yup. Somehow this guy is allowed to just hammer home his agenda all day long though. On each and every thread, no matter how tired of it the rest of us are. I thought that wasn't going to be tolerated here anymore?

  • mrhotdice said... (original post)

    Two plays from being 6-6 and a bowl. That for sure is the optimistic view and is much appreiated by the fans with low expectations. Nothing wrong with that at most schools but we are an SEC school. Question:

    How many years and how many players and how many plays til we are 8-9-10 wins? And how many bad years are you willing to accept? This is and has always been the questions surrounding UK football. My biggest complaint is with such low expectations that is were we will always stay, a bottom tier SEC team with 6 wins and occasional upset and thats it. I don't think that is the way to build a program if that is the point of the exercise.

    I want better than that no matter who is coaching. My biggest fear is that with the Louisville game being first up next year that the importance of a win in Louisville is almost a have to win.

    Maybe I read War's post differently from u because I don't think for a second that he is happy with our team playing 6-6 ball. Pretty sure his point on that was, as BAD as last year was we needed two plays to be in a bowl.
    All u have to do like stated before is make plays and that starts with O-line and Qb, this yrs class has some really good O-linemen (needs a OT) and from what I hear a Qb that may be pretty good too.
    If u don't agree with that look at what happened to the Colts this year with no Qb, look what happened to the gators and Texas the last 2 yrs without a Qb.
    I for one love this class (so far) and the last yrs class, and I pray we play well next year and keep improving and keep improving recruiting because I think our 8,9,10+ win yrs start in 13,14,15+ give these last few class and this one a chance and if I'm wrong I'll be first in line to eat all the Crow u can serve.

  • Yes Cat you are correct. His want and hope to jump on something that he thought he had a bead on is pathetic. In no way do I ever hope for a 6-6 season. Ever. That would mean that I conceded six times. Most know by now I don't concede a damn thing.

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