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Record: 6210 (3/13/2012)

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Here is a PROBLEM (at least as I see it)...

  • I love the fact that we are getting highly rated players. After the recruiting drought brought on by OTS and Clyde, it is nice to have a team loaded with talent. With that said, after watching the IU game, I just get the impression that the players we get don't care that they are playing for KENTUCKY! Its not about the school they play for, its about their furture. If you really listen Cal's to comments about players first, what he is essentially saying is "Kids, this is all about you. The history, traditions, rivalries, and pride of UK ball does not mean squat." I can remember the days when UK players were absolutely AMPED to play IU. It was a game that our entire team wanted to win. Now, I don't think 90 percent of our guys care about that. In truth, we are getting guys who would be willing to play anywhere as long as they only have to do it for a year.

    Will probably get ripped for saying this, but our school, facilities and all that is UK are simply being used to pump the reps and careers of Cal and his "one and done" recruiting philosophy. Indiana wanted to beat KENTUCKY today. I really don't think who we were playing mattered to us and that showed in a big way.

    This post was edited by michaelman1 3 years ago

  • I can't really agree with that. With the exception of Jones' bizarre day, I thought they all played hard. They didn't always play well, but the effort was there for most of the team. They fought like hell to come back against an IU team that could do no wrong for a while.

    What about Michael Kidd-Gilchrist? You think he's just here for one-and-done and doesn't care? That kid plays every second of the game like it's his last game he'll ever play.

    What about the way they fought to the Final Four run last year? You don't beat Ohio State and UNC back to back without caring.

    I just think you're posting on the emotion of losing to a rival right now. Ever since I can remember, when UK loses a game, there's always questions about the effort. Sometimes you just aren't better than the other guy.

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  • I really dont think these kids want to play for UK as much as they want to play for Cal and get to the NBA. I am certainly upset over the game and emotion is a part of it right now. But when you have the constant turnover in the roster, there is not much time for loyalty to be built or rivalry to be understood. Truth be told, I am just as pissed about Cal's comments as I am this game. I think it should be UK first and players second...IMO

  • No matter what Cal. says, the players can't go to class at UK and not play hard for the school. Every student lets them know that they are part of the University and that basketball means everything in Lexington.

    It will always be UK first because that is why kids come to UK. The tradition, the failities and the fans as well as Coach Cal.

    Focus on winning Championships not beating Indiana. Kids listen after losses much better than wins.

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  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    "... I can remember the days when UK players were absolutely AMPED to play IU. It was a game that our entire team wanted to win. Now, I don't think 90 percent of our guys care about that. ..."

    Old guys like us can remember when the IU game was as big or bigger than any on the schedule. With all the problems that they have had up there and the lack of success they have had in holding up their end of the rivalry, it's hard to get kids to understand that it is a big game. To these kids our rivals are UNC and U of L. IU has not been much of a player on the national stage in their lifetime.

    IU kids on the other hand were not necessarily amped up to beat Kentucky,, they were amped up to beat the NUMBER 1 TEAM in the country on their floor. That team happened to be UK. This for them was the game that would show how much progress they had made in coming back from the dead.

  • There is no problem .... only opportunities for improvement. My only problem with our losses is the reaction of our fans, stop it already

  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    we are getting guys who would be willing to play anywhere as long as they only have to do it for a year.

    Will probably get ripped for saying this, but our school, facilities and all that is UK are simply being used to pump the reps and careers of Cal and his "one and done" recruiting philosophy. Indiana wanted to beat KENTUCKY today. I really don't think who we were playing mattered to us and that showed in a big way.

    If you want a line up of Kentucky kids, that grew up living and breathing the program, great .... we can have a
    Top 75 team.

    If history, tradition, FANS, facilities, passion and school were primarily responsible for where recruits chose to play their college basketball - UK, UCLA, UNC, IU would never have "lulls or droughts". However, recruits choose coaches to play for, and the top tier coaches don't have "lulls" or "droughts", maybe a rebuilding year. Fans shouldn't get their feelings hurt, things change.

    Everyone of Cal's teams here at Kentucky have played their tails off, represented our University, embraced our fans and won games at an amazing clip ...... Maybe I'm delusional, but this whole bring in the best talent, watch them grow, develope, make deep tourney runs, get drafted, rep UK afterwards seems tremendous !

  • Lapcat86 said... (original post)

    There is no problem .... only opportunities for improvement. My only problem with our losses is the reaction of our fans, stop it already

    Couldn't have said it better myself.

  • Excellent perspective Jeff. Let's remember (as if we needed to be reminded) we start 3 frosh and 2 sophomores. And things happen happen in tense games where you're trying to come back. With the wing spread of some of our players I wished we had someone guarding the IU "inbouder" on the last play. I ding Cal a little on that one + I would have liked to have seen Witjer in earlier in the first half. And having 2 fouls to give the players (be they the senior of the others) failed to execute. The main thing that tells me we either lose or put ourselves in a position to lose(in any game) is the one stat I always check first----assists. Anytime we are in single digits (regardless of what we shoot % wise) we have and come close to being on the losing end. The effort was there but not the crisp ball movement I have seen in other games. I wanted to beat the Hoosiers in the worst way. However, with what the IU fans have endured for last several years I am happy for them and the fact it wasn't UNC or UL who beat us @ the buzzer. Go Cats!

  • The biggest reason I wasn't overly upset w/yesterday's loss WAS DUE the fight and grit they showed when they went down 10 mid second half and managed to turn it to a two point lead late in the game. And they did it w/o Jones who gave them zilch yesterday. During the in game thread, I moaned that UK was setting up IU for a Cinderella finish because in my gut, w/the crowd and the way the game was played throughout, Dicky V screaming to a national audience, I just felt that this was almost destined to be the outcome. And BTW, yesterday's game is what is right w/college bball as opposed to that disgrace of Xavier/Cincy.

    The positives: Kidd Gilchrist continues to be an animal who plays w/an intensity that I'm hard pressed to compare to any other past Wildcat. He brings it every single second. Two, Teague had a tremendous 2nd half demonstrating both a physical and MENTAL toughness we need from the PG position. Lastly, UK competed and had a very good chance to win when they weren't hitting on all cylinders.

    Honestly, I think a lot of fan anger yesterday (and lingerning today) is we bought the hype after the NC game and really thought UK could run the table. Add to that some of Cals comments last week and there was a little grouchiness towards him as well. UK played hard yesterday and overcame a lot to be in a position to win the game. As I've posted numerous times since yesterday, sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the opposition and say great play, accept the loss and move on. It happens.

  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    I really dont think these kids want to play for UK as much as they want to play for Cal and get to the NBA. I am certainly upset over the game and emotion is a part of it right now. But when you have the constant turnover in the roster, there is not much time for loyalty to be built or rivalry to be understood. Truth be told, I am just as pissed about Cal's comments as I am this game. I think it should be UK first and players second...IMO

    todays game is not like it was way back in the day...u have to bring in the elite players or its tough to compete...yea butlers has done well the last 2 years but you wont see something like that again for a LONG time...tubby and billy recruited the guys you want cal to recruit and i dont think you were too happy about it...and all cal is doing is selling his program to recruits of the future by saying its a players first program...at the end of the day cal knows big blue nation will be there no matter what he says thats not the same for recruits

  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    I really dont think these kids want to play for UK as much as they want to play for Cal and get to the NBA. I am certainly upset over the game and emotion is a part of it right now. But when you have the constant turnover in the roster, there is not much time for loyalty to be built or rivalry to be understood. Truth be told, I am just as pissed about Cal's comments as I am this game. I think it should be UK first and players second...IMO

    As long as they're winning, what's the big deal? They know everything there is to know about playing for the University of Kentucky. "Players First" is simply Cal's motto. You think they're not loyal to the University? Nah, Lamb and Jones are only loyal to Cal, not the school, right? I guess I can't agree with your perspective, but I can't say it's wrong.

    Keep Calm & Stoops On..

  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    I really dont think these kids want to play for UK as much as they want to play for Cal and get to the NBA. I am certainly upset over the game and emotion is a part of it right now. But when you have the constant turnover in the roster, there is not much time for loyalty to be built or rivalry to be understood. Truth be told, I am just as pissed about Cal's comments as I am this game. I think it should be UK first and players second...IMO

    The days of kids longing to simply wear a college's jersey are long gone. It may apply to a few, but not the elite prospects. Like any other kid that goes to college, they're most concerned with their future. That's the only reason college exists, to better prepare the individual for his future. I don't hold that against them at all. And I think most kids who come here fall in love with it. Look at how many of them return or even live here when they're older and out of basketball.

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  • The OP did a good job of summarizing what I feared was going to happen in the Cal era, but I've been tremendously surprised and pleased by how much the opposite is true. He does get these superstars to buy-in, play hard, and be part of the team. I'm not sure if they're playing for the school or for the coach, and I'm not sure it matters, but in two years he's come up with two very very good teams, and I have every confidence this one will be the third.

  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    The days of kids longing to simply wear a college's jersey are long gone. It may apply to a few, but not the elite prospects. Like any other kid that goes to college, they're most concerned with their future. That's the only reason college exists, to better prepare the individual for his future. I don't hold that against them at all. And I think most kids who come here fall in love with it. Look at how many of them return or even live here when they're older and out of basketball.

    And getting smaller all the time. Increasingly, especially with the one and done rule, kids look at choosing a college a purely a business decision.

    It's a one-year audition for the NBA. The other nuances factor in some, but not a lot.

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  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    I love the fact that we are getting highly rated players. After the recruiting drought brought on by OTS and Clyde, it is nice to have a team loaded with talent. With that said, after watching the IU game, I just get the impression that the players we get don't care that they are playing for KENTUCKY! Its not about the school they play for, its about their furture. If you really listen Cal's to comments about players first, what he is essentially saying is "Kids, this is all about you. The history, traditions, rivalries, and pride of UK ball does not mean squat." I can remember the days when UK players were absolutely AMPED to play IU. It was a game that our entire team wanted to win. Now, I don't think 90 percent of our guys care about that. In truth, we are getting guys who would be willing to play anywhere as long as they only have to do it for a year.

    Will probably get ripped for saying this, but our school, facilities and all that is UK are simply being used to pump the reps and careers of Cal and his "one and done" recruiting philosophy. Indiana wanted to beat KENTUCKY today. I really don't think who we were playing mattered to us and that showed in a big way.

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... bs_sign

  • It's December. I really didn't care about this Indiana game either. I can't blame the players. But it was all great effort (minus a goofball). IU can play.

  • This is why I don't really care about basketball. A completely different roster every year, kids who don't really care about the school and are in it for themselves, and fans who worship the ground these players walk on. Kinda crazy when you think about it, "Hey, Kentucky, thanks for giving me every possible thing a kid could want, including free school, food, and all the attention. In return, you'll get me for 4 months instead of 3-4 years. I'll come back to Lexington every now and then for the ego boost". But like Jeff and Chris said, this is not just an exception for Kentucky, it's college basketball everywhere, and I think it's a big reason the sport lags behind others.

  • PHCD said... (original post)

    But like Jeff and Chris said, this is not just an exception for Kentucky, it's college basketball everywhere, and I think it's a big reason the sport lags behind others.

    So should we go back to the days when every player stayed four years and the vast majority were from the general vicinity of the school? Because in those days...........college basketball really wasn't that popular then, either.

  • michaelman1 said... (original post)

    So should we go back to the days when every player stayed four years and the vast majority were from the general vicinity of the school? Because in those days...........college basketball really wasn't that popular then, either.

    No, but I don't think that one and done's are good for the sport. CBB would benefit if good players stayed for more than one year. Imagine if Julio Jones, AJ Green, Mark Ingram, Tim Tebow, Randall Cobb, etc... had only been at their schools for one year. I get that it's two different sports, but the principle remains.

    Edit to clarify again that this not an anti-Calipari thought, but is my thoughts on CBB as a sport. No need to crucify me (just preparing for it...).

    This post was edited by PHCD 3 years ago

  • ukaveman said... (original post)

    The biggest reason I wasn't overly upset w/yesterday's loss WAS DUE the fight and grit they showed when they went down 10 mid second half and managed to turn it to a two point lead late in the game. And they did it w/o Jones who gave them zilch yesterday. During the in game thread, I moaned that UK was setting up IU for a Cinderella finish because in my gut, w/the crowd and the way the game was played throughout, Dicky V screaming to a national audience, I just felt that this was almost destined to be the outcome. And BTW, yesterday's game is what is right w/college bball as opposed to that disgrace of Xavier/Cincy.

    The positives: Kidd Gilchrist continues to be an animal who plays w/an intensity that I'm hard pressed to compare to any other past Wildcat. He brings it every single second. Two, Teague had a tremendous 2nd half demonstrating both a physical and MENTAL toughness we need from the PG position. Lastly, UK competed and had a very good chance to win when they weren't hitting on all cylinders.

    Honestly, I think a lot of fan anger yesterday (and lingerning today) is we bought the hype after the NC game and really thought UK could run the table. Add to that some of Cals comments last week and there was a little grouchiness towards him as well. UK played hard yesterday and overcame a lot to be in a position to win the game. As I've posted numerous times since yesterday, sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the opposition and say great play, accept the loss and move on. It happens.

    great post. it's one game and TJ no showed. and let's face it. Crean is a damn good coach.

  • Why is it that every time we lose a game we have to hear this nonsense? Seriously, we lost to a well coached, tough team at home in an extremely hostile environment. We, as UK fans, do not have to drum up some "sky is falling" scenario every time that we lose a game. no

  • BlueGhost said... (original post)

    Why is it that every time we lose a game we have to hear this nonsense? Seriously, we lost to a well coached, tough team at home in an extremely hostile environment. We, as UK fans, do not have to drum up some "sky is falling" scenario every time that we lose a game. no

    Part of what makes the BBN both amazing and goofy at times.

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  • BlueGhost said... (original post)

    Why is it that every time we lose a game we have to hear this nonsense? Seriously, we lost to a well coached, tough team at home in an extremely hostile environment. We, as UK fans, do not have to drum up some "sky is falling" scenario every time that we lose a game. no

    Oh rats, Ghost! I wanted to be the one to bring out the "sky is falling" line!!! We will hear them after every loss for some reason. The system in place is not the best in the world, but Cal does a great job at using that system to win games. And I'd much rather lose one in December (if we have to lose) than to lose one at tournament time.

    In summary, the sky is NOT falling. Cal is coaching some of the most elite players in the entire nation who just happen to be playing for the University of Kentucky. And I'm glad they are both here to hang the next banner soon.

  • Funny thing about the UK job, you really ARE expected to win every game. biggrin

    Most people realize that isn't going to happen, but they still expect it, and get upset after each loss.

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