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If we fire joker...

  • Let us live in the hypothectical world for a second. If we were to fire joker, do we fire most or all of the staff too? If so, how many GOOD young players do we lose? Think about it. There are A LOT of players that came here bc of JOKER and TEE MARTIN only! Also, how many commits decide to decommit? This would be like self inflicted probation. I say give Joker another year bc i see the playermakers. All the WR will be back besides Roark and McCaskill, including geting Daryl Collins back and seeing Rashad Cunningham and hopefully a commit from Lance Ray. Clemons will be back along will everyone besides CoShik at RB. Maxwell Smith will have the whole off season to practice and get ready for the SEC. I hope we can rebuild the OL bc we have several seniors. On D, DL stays pretty much intact. We have to replace Guy, Trevathan, Sneed, and Burden, but we have guys ready to step in. I can see where we can improve greatly next year and no, i am not a homer. Recruiting is everything and our problem WAS there, it is being corrected. I promise you, the sky isn't falling. We didn't get false hope after the Ole Miss game, we let ourselves get to excited after one win. Lets get UT and move on the next year.

  • If Joker goes, we lose Patrick Towles, Thomas Chapman, Demarcus Sweat, and pretty much the entire recruiting class...which is pretty close to being a top 25 class. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    This post was edited by BigBlueTopper 3 years ago

    "Apparently the University of Kentucky basketball dynasty is to continue forever." - Philadelphia Inquirer, December 23 1954.

  • You are naive to think that this season and the likelihood that Joker will be fired next year anyway will not affect this class. The half dozen really talented kids can flip at a moment and the rest of the class is solid but by themselves at the bottom of the SEC. Just like Jeff said the other day you can't continue to compete in the SEC with sleepers. You never keep a failing coach to get a good recruit. It never works out that way.

  • BigBlueTopper said... (original post)

    If Joker goes, we lose Patrick Towles, Thomas Chapman, Demarcus Sweat, and pretty much the entire recruiting class...which is pretty close to being a top 25 class. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    If UK hires a quality coach Towles would stay as well as the others. However, this class that is ranked 12 or 13 out of the 14 members of the conference. It certainly does not bode well for the teams future. A new well respected coach would close the deal with the 5-7 true BCS players in the class and add some improved players. Do you think these guys would really bail if UK brought in Rich Rod, Leach, Sumlin, Fedora, etc. I don't think so. They would probably be fired up. It is not like the majority of the class has UGA, LSU, UF, AU, UA, etc. waiting on them. Using the recruiting slant to save Joker is way past weak.

  • If you were a QB who would you rather play for, Joker who has problems deciding on which kid is the best QB or a coach like a Mike Leach who knows the passing game better than anyone on the UK staff.

    I don't care if they sign one kid if it means UK actually has a coach that makes them competitive, To keep Joker because of a recruit is beyond stupid it is that thinking that has the UK football program in the shape its in now,

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  • I don't post very much, just because I don't feel like arguing over something I can't control. With that said, I am very firm in the belief that firing Joker will set us back further than if we keep him. If we fire this coaching staff, we will see a lot of kids transfer and we will lose 2/3 of this recruiting class. We will also lose all of the footing we have in the state of Georgia. All those kids from Lagrange and Stephenson and all those other schools wouldn't even give Kentucky a second glance without Joker, Tee Martin and Coach Pardue. We would lose any ground we've made up in Louisville, and Charlie Strong would have his pick of any kid from that city. It wouldn't even be a battle for him anymore. All of the hard work of the coaching staff would be down the drain. Do you remember what Rich Brooks said when he got here? I think he said we had 2 players who could run a 4.5 40. It has been a grueling process to build the roster to where it currently is, to stock it with players who have SEC caliber speed. We're going to have some very talented kids on the roster next year, and I think the offense will be much improved. I understand how frustrating this season has been. That doesn't mean you completely scrap what you've been doing and undertake a complete program overhaul. That would be the worst possible thing. You think things are frustrating right now? Just imagine what it's going to be like if we bring in a new head coach and all new assistant coaches. It would take a long time for the kids to learn a new system and even longer to be competitive again. Besides, who do you think we are going to get to be our head coach? I know some of you have short memories, but for the past several years, we've had one of the SEC's most potent offenses. This staff hasn't forgotten how to coach an offense and put this team in position to score points. I realize this has been an extremely disappointing year, but realize that things could be a lot worse than they are now.

    "Apparently the University of Kentucky basketball dynasty is to continue forever." - Philadelphia Inquirer, December 23 1954.

  • I want the necessary changes made "NOW" that will give us LONG TERM success. We have to let some people go... even if that means losing this entire Coaching staff and a few 2 or 3 star recruits. What we will gain by hiring a top notch coach and recruiter, will FAR out weigh what we lose now. It's time to be bold and spend the big bucks.

    Go BIG... or get out of the SEC

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by JawJacker 3 years ago

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  • For those (including me) that believe a coaching change this year is needed you also have to understand that with a coach change there are several things that accompany it.

    1. Normally the new coach will decided who if any on the current staff he wishes to retain. You go out get a quality head coach you will NOT dictate to him who he will keep. You have to give him complete autonomy to select his own staff.

    2. You will lose some recruits that's inevitable

    3. You will have some players transfer - that's also inevitable

    4. A new coach depending on his situation and that of the assistant's he taps is likely to bring a few recruits in with him. Depending on how high profile that coach might be, he could bring in some real surprise talent late.

    5. You will normally have at least one transition year but not always. Sometimes a new man can come in and stoke the fire immediately - for evidence of that back the tape up no further than last Saturday.

    Like JawJaker said you have to think in the long term on a coaching change, not the immediate impact, although you may get some very surprising positive immediate impact as well.

    This post was edited by Deeeefense 3 years ago

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

  • Great points there Deeefense... especially, #4. People seem to be too worried about what we will lose, instead of what we would gain. Just make the necessary changes and let the chips fall where they may.

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  • Something like 6 players from 08 either don't play football or transfer. One of our supposedly most talented recruits Priester transferred and just talks about smoking weed openly on twitter. Not that I truly care but you get the point.

    People come and go in life and in sports. You bring in a Chris Peterson and he will get you results and recruits. I know he didn't do it in the SEC right? Ask UGA who is favored by 697,982 points against us, their opinion of Boise St. If the coach can coach the players would come. Only coach I would like to keep is Tee. IMO a coach that would come here would see how good Tee is. Hell let's not forget Bama wanted him for this year.

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  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    I want the necessary changes made "NOW" that will give us LONG TERM success. We have let some people go... even if that means losing this entire Coaching staff and a few 2 or 3 star recruits. What we will gain by hiring a top notch coach and recruiter, will FAR out weigh what we lose now. It's time to be bold and spend the big bucks.

    Go BIG... or get out of the SEC

    a few 2 or 3 stars? How about these 2? Daryl Collins and Glenn Faulker. Collins could transfer anywhere and play next year bc he sat this year out. Faulker would have to wait. Are those 2 or 3 stars? yes collins was rated a 3 star but we all know Bama wanted him but didn't have a scholly for him. Think about this class. Why are we doing "good" in recruiting yet have had such a bad year? They like the staff. Who are we going to go sign as a coach? Leach? Not an upgrade to me. had about the same talent we do only had the recruit base of texas. WE can't go make a hire like Bama and get the slam dunk coach like Cal for BB. We have to do what Bama did in BB. Get a young talented coach and hope they turn out. If we could get Chris Peterson Now, I might move to the other side, but if it is fire joker and hope, then no. We can all agree that MB doesn't do good at hiring so why would you want to make him again? The money going into FB is what is killing it, NOT Joker or Mitch.

  • I agree with this trueUK. Peterson is number 1 on my call list. If it were me I would have feelers out now. Urban Meyer or Gruden isnt coming here. UK isnt invested enough in its football program for that. We can get a great young coach who works toward building that though. Also he makes 1.6 mil so a pay raise to 2 mil might do the trick if we were to show him that we were dedicated to the cause.

    This post was edited by Warmother51 3 years ago

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  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    I want the necessary changes made "NOW" that will give us LONG TERM success. We have let some people go... even if that means losing this entire Coaching staff and a few 2 or 3 star recruits. What we will gain by hiring a top notch coach and recruiter, will FAR out weigh what we lose now. It's time to be bold and spend the big bucks.

    Go BIG... or get out of the SEC

    This

  • BigBlueTopper said... (original post)

    If Joker goes, we lose Patrick Towles, Thomas Chapman, Demarcus Sweat, and pretty much the entire recruiting class...which is pretty close to being a top 25 class. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    lol

    We're way below where we were in 2003, so, I'll give all of those guys to Louisville or Cincinnati to get a new coach...Max Smith is fine. I've heard this one for years and I'm only 21. There's always a few people who will scream if we lose a few 2 or 3-stars but there are only 5000 more 2 and 3-stars out there!~!~!~!~!~!~?~?~?~?~!~!~!

  • Would Peterson give UK instant recruiting in this part of the country, or would it take a couple of years to prove he could roll up points and yards in the SEC?

    I just say this because I don't think he's a household name for prospects. They all know Boise's been pretty good in recent years, but I don't know if they'd flock to play for him immediately.

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  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    Would Peterson give UK instant recruiting in this part of the country, or would it take a couple of years to prove he could roll up points and yards in the SEC?

    I just say this because I don't think he's a household name for prospects. They all know Boise's been pretty good in recent years, but I don't know if they'd flock to play for him immediately.

    Besides, what happened to the last can't miss Boise St coach at Colorado????? Boise has a nice program but lets face it, they really only play one or two difficult games each year and then they coast on their cream puff schedule. Put them in the Pac-12, Big 12, or God forbid the SEC and they'd be a solid above average team but nowhere near as successful as they've been over the last several years.

  • He may open up the west and Cali a bit. You keep Tee on board and he maintains those relationships here. We have some nice signings from LaGrange and Stephenson but where has it gotten us? I understand where you guys are coming from but a 2 star 4.5 guy is the same from GA as he is from Colorado. Recruits are better in the south for sure but we arent getting Jadaveon Clowney any time soon. I want a guy who can coach and surround him with recruiters and coaches.

    ukaveman we play UGA on Sat. BSU played UGA earlier this season. We are 29 point underdogs. BSU won their game. I prefer those results. You know why BSU plays a cupcake schedule? Because noone will play them. They go out of conference any time someone will play them. NOONE dares step onto their field OOC. I realize they lost to TCU this weekend but you cant go undefeated forever.

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  • ukaveman said... (original post)

    Besides, what happened to the last can't miss Boise St coach at Colorado????? Boise has a nice program but lets face it, they really only play one or two difficult games each year and then they coast on their cream puff schedule. Put them in the Pac-12, Big 12, or God forbid the SEC and they'd be a solid above average team but nowhere near as successful as they've been over the last several years.

    Actually they are headed for the Big Least. If the league keep their BCS tie in that would be a great situation for Boise as they now have a manageable route to the BCS championship game. So for that reason I just don't see Peterson giving up that situation to roll the dice here.

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

  • Excellent discussion guys!

  • Peterson is a pipe dream, especially now that they're going to the Big East and are a regular in the top 10 every year. Same for Patterson, Meyer, and any other big name coach who has been waiting on the right job to open. With both Ohio State and Penn State looking to fill HC jobs this off-season, along with places like UCLA likely doing the same, its gonna be a tough hiring market, especially for lower tier jobs like UK.

    That said, I want Joker and everyone associated with the staff, except for Tee, gone ASAP. I actually like Minter and think he'll do well if the offense ever stays on the field long enough to help out, but I suspect he would be replaced by a new HC.

    As for candidates, this may be the perfect chance to get a big time coordinator who is high on most people's list (Kirby Smart, I'm looking at you). Reason being, the big "name" coaches will likely get the really big jobs opening this year, Richt has likely done enough to stay at UGA a little longer, etc. If we could get a guy like Smart who is well proven and is trusted as Saban's DC, you do it regardless of what it does to the current class and possible transfers.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by mjdotson 3 years ago

  • BigBlueTopper said... (original post)

    I don't post very much, just because I don't feel like arguing over something I can't control. With that said, I am very firm in the belief that firing Joker will set us back further than if we keep him. If we fire this coaching staff, we will see a lot of kids transfer and we will lose 2/3 of this recruiting class. We will also lose all of the footing we have in the state of Georgia. All those kids from Lagrange and Stephenson and all those other schools wouldn't even give Kentucky a second glance without Joker, Tee Martin and Coach Pardue. We would lose any ground we've made up in Louisville, and Charlie Strong would have his pick of any kid from that city. It wouldn't even be a battle for him anymore. All of the hard work of the coaching staff would be down the drain. Do you remember what Rich Brooks said when he got here? I think he said we had 2 players who could run a 4.5 40. It has been a grueling process to build the roster to where it currently is, to stock it with players who have SEC caliber speed. We're going to have some very talented kids on the roster next year, and I think the offense will be much improved. I understand how frustrating this season has been. That doesn't mean you completely scrap what you've been doing and undertake a complete program overhaul. That would be the worst possible thing. You think things are frustrating right now? Just imagine what it's going to be like if we bring in a new head coach and all new assistant coaches. It would take a long time for the kids to learn a new system and even longer to be competitive again. Besides, who do you think we are going to get to be our head coach? I know some of you have short memories, but for the past several years, we've had one of the SEC's most potent offenses. This staff hasn't forgotten how to coach an offense and put this team in position to score points. I realize this has been an extremely disappointing year, but realize that things could be a lot worse than they are now.

    Interesting thoughts BigBlueTopper. My only concern is embedded in your post at the point where you say "I understand how frustrating this season has been..."

    I'm not trying to argue but honestly what have these players gotten us, say 4-8 maybe? If we lose them, does this mean we are back to 2-10? At the end of the day, if you are going down does it really matter how far? The gauge I use is if we are getting competitive *and* improving and I have to honestly say that I don't see it. They say that sometimes coaches just "lose their team" and right now I'm wondering if this isn't the case. I never, personally, felt like Joker as a OC was a good in-game coach. I remember several games he made bonehead calls and failed at times to stick with what was working and got a bit in love with either the run, or the pass. With all that said, I think you have a point but as someone who invests so much into the program as a whole I'm not overly concerned with going down - the difference between 4-8 & 2-10 is minimal. In both cases, I'm upset and disappointed.

    Just my opinion...

  • ca4ukinwa said... (original post)

    Interesting thoughts BigBlueTopper. My only concern is embedded in your post at the point where you say "I understand how frustrating this season has been..."

    I'm not trying to argue but honestly what have these players gotten us, say 4-8 maybe? If we lose them, does this mean we are back to 2-10? At the end of the day, if you are going down does it really matter how far? The gauge I use is if we are getting competitive *and* improving and I have to honestly say that I don't see it. They say that sometimes coaches just "lose their team" and right now I'm wondering if this isn't the case. I never, personally, felt like Joker as a OC was a good in-game coach. I remember several games he made bonehead calls and failed at times to stick with what was working and got a bit in love with either the run, or the pass. With all that said, I think you have a point but as someone who invests so much into the program as a whole I'm not overly concerned with going down - the difference between 4-8 & 2-10 is minimal. In both cases, I'm upset and disappointed.

    Just my opinion...

    I agree 100%

    +1 thumbsup

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  • I, honestly, liked the route that my local school took here in Seattle (Udub). The hiring of Coach Sark which was Pete Carrol's OC was the type of under-the-radar hire that IMO is what you have to do. The same occurred in Miss. State with the hiring of Dan Mullen. You will never convinced me that when Mullen left Meyer's staff a huge hit didn't take place - he left and they couldn't even win it all *with* arguably the best college QB of all-time Tim Tebow.

    Coach Sark has turned the Husky program around and they are seriously looking at 8-4 this year in year 3. Now, I realize, UW has a much better history and is traditionally a football power that can pull 5*'s rather easily. The point, though, is the program has went from 0-12 in the Pac 12 to competitive in 3 years - there are lessons to learn if we watch closely. I might be totally off the rocker here but as I watch UW, I can't help but wonder why UK couldn't do the same thing. The key point I like - UW beats the teams they are supposed to beat. They haven't gotten over the hump yet though and beaten Stanford, USC, and Oregon but they are much improved and you can tell it. Unlike our Cats...

    Thoughts? I think getting an offensive coordinator who is with a strong program might just be the right ticket... I'm not so certain about D coordinator (Just my opinion)

  • Personally I prefer D but you give a good argument and I have kept an eye on Wash to see how Sark would do.

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