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Record: 6210 (3/13/2012)

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I'm a fan of the University of Kentucky

  • My grandfather played football and basketball for the University of Kentucky and until the day he died he supported all things UK. I've always taken pride in the fact that he played there for Rupp and he was good friends with Bear Bryant when he was at UK.

    It's sickening to hear some of our football fans basically blaming our basketball success and tradition for the ineptness that plagues our football program. There's no argument that UK needs to put more money into our football facilities but just doing that alone will not cure what's ailing our football program. There are plenty of schools out there succeeding in football with a lot less to work with than what Kentucky has. They may not be in the SEC but they are still successful nonetheless.

    The college football powerhouses also reside coincidentally in the recruiting hotbeds of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Ohio, California, and Pennsylvania to name a few. Teams in these areas will always have a leg up recruiting wise no matter how much money Kentucky puts into facilities. Yes we'd more than likely keep a few more local highly rated recruits but we still couldn't compete with the big boys recruiting wise annually.

    I'm not going to go into all the things I think UK needs to do to improve the product on the field but it has nothing to do with the basketball program and the money that goes into it. Kentucky football needs to prove itself on the field then the money will follow. Kentucky football has enough assets at it's disposal already to field an exciting, competitive team. Sure we could use more (who couldn't), but before more comes, in the way of facilities and money, there has to be a better product on the field.

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  • Enjoyed reading your post and certainly understand your viewpoint. Problem is, I can also appreciate the viewpoint that we need make a greater financial investment in the football program to see greater returns. With the current state of affairs of Kentucky football as they are, I think it's classic case of one of those chicken or the egg scenarios---which one comes first?

    Is this where someone responds back.....simultaneously

  • Well maybe it really is time to leave the SEC? Because this is 2011 and we have only had two seasons since the 50's that we looked like a true SEC power, 76-77. And we where on probation during 77 so there you go.

    Maybe it is time to make a move to the ACC. The BB is better and we may be more competitive in football. A lot of UK fans want a competitive football team and with the Texas AM coming in 2012 and more likely, I just don't see us doing that in the football crazy SEC. BB will still be king though so I guess we have that going for us.

  • Whitaker568 said... (original post)

    Maybe it is time to make a move to the ACC.

    On paper it makes a lot of sense and a move I'm not opposed to. But just one of those things that's never going to happen.

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  • The easiest way for UK to get better players is to petition the NCAA to reduce member schools' scholarships from 85-82 (cause I don't think they would go down to 80 - but that's the number I'd like to see). That would mean there would be 3 extra players to recruit from each school and we would surely get some of them. The LAST 3 players usually signed by Alabama, LSU, TN, FL, GA, AR, etc. would surely be better than some of the players we get now. Their 3rd string QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, LB, S, TE, etc. signee would probably be our backups and play their first year here IMHO.

  • In response to the OP... with all due respect, I think you have it backwards. Haven't you ever heard... "you've gotta spend money to make money" or "build it and they will come".

    You must make improvements FIRST... if you wanna better product.

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  • Investment must start with the Coach and his staff. Begin collecting a few wins that mean something (SEC) and build on that. The coaches we've been hiring says it all. Just like our rosters, we're hoping for a diamond in the rough (or a retread - Claiborne, Curry, Brooks) to save us.

    This post was edited by CATinFL 3 years ago

  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    In response to the OP... with all due respect, I think you have it backwards. Haven't you ever heard... "you've gotta spend money to make money" or "build it and they will come".

    You must make improvements FIRST... if you wanna better product.

    I think the saying is "You have to have money to make money", but I understand what you're saying and it's a debatable point of view. I think in order to invest the money into the football program it has to go along with a clear and precise, reachable level of competitiveness and success and a thorough plan on how to get there. Arranging your schedule to where you can make a bowl game and still only have to win 1-2 SEC games a year is not the route most in the fan base want to take.

    It starts with the head coach in my opinion. At Kentucky you need a coach who thinks outside the box. Someone that can implement a style and system that doesn't rely solely on getting 4 and 5 star recruits.

    My main objection is the fact that some UK football fans want to lay this at the feet of how successful our basketball program is and that we need to focus primariy on the football program since it has the potential for making the most money. I think that's non-sense.

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  • jimlowe7 said... (original post)

    The easiest way for UK to get better players is to petition the NCAA to reduce member schools' scholarships from 85-82 (cause I don't think they would go down to 80 - but that's the number I'd like to see). That would mean there would be 3 extra players to recruit from each school and we would surely get some of them. The LAST 3 players usually signed by Alabama, LSU, TN, FL, GA, AR, etc. would surely be better than some of the players we get now. Their 3rd string QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, LB, S, TE, etc. signee would probably be our backups and play their first year here IMHO.

    That would help college football across the board IMO, but coaches already grumble about the 85 limit. The only hope of something like that getting pushed through is the expense of funding these scholarships in today's financial landscape.

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  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    In response to the OP... with all due respect, I think you have it backwards. Haven't you ever heard... "you've gotta spend money to make money" or "build it and they will come".

    You must make improvements FIRST... if you wanna better product.

    UK has put more resources into football than it ever has in the history of the school. The problem is, it's an arms race, and UK is lagging behind the SEC severely in fund-raising. There aren't enough people with deep pockets stepping up for football. That's the cold, hard truth.

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  • The proverbial circle of life: Commitment by UKAA= more money to afford better facilities=ability to hire a better staff=better recruiting=better results on the field=more money for UKAA=continued commitment to be the best.....

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    "Kentucky Football needs to be and will be a championship contender in the SEC."~Mitch Barnhart 11/4/12

  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    UK has put more resources into football than it ever has in the history of the school. The problem is, it's an arms race, and UK is lagging behind the SEC severely in fund-raising. There aren't enough people with deep pockets stepping up for football. That's the cold, hard truth.

    I still believe there are ways to get donations. IMHO Mitch and his band of merry men must think outside the box. Find a way, hire some type of consultants that deal with fundraising. He seems to like doing that anyway?

  • Whitaker568 said... (original post)

    I still believe there are ways to get donations. IMHO Mitch and his band of merry men must think outside the box. Find a way, hire some type of consultants that deal with fundraising. He seems to like doing that anyway?

    That may be true, but it's a different matter than not caring about football. I don't have enough knowledge of the fundraising process to feel qualified to comment on that.

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  • The cold, hard truth is this: UK just doesn't have the players to consistently compete at a high level. Now how they go about changing that is up for debate and is being fervently debated as we speak.

    But the end result has to be mo' better players. It's like expecting Auburn to suddenly start competing for SEC championships in basketball. Just not going to happen overnight. They may put together a decent team here and there but just lack the players to compete at a high level consistently.

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  • Chris Fisher said... (original post)

    The cold, hard truth is this: UK just doesn't have the players to consistently compete at a high level. Now how they go about changing that is up for debate and is being fervently debated as we speak.

    But the end result has to be mo' better players. It's like expecting Auburn to suddenly start competing for SEC championships in basketball. Just not going to happen overnight. They may put together a decent team here and there but just lack the players to compete at a high level consistently.

    I agree with needing better players and the 2011 & 2012 classes look to be a nice start.

    But if Auburn really wanted a top notch BB program they could have one if they A)Went out and hired the right coach. A blank check to the right coach would be hard to turn down. Coaches love money, who doesn't. B) Build better facilities. It may still take a few years but it can be done if the want is strong enough.

    UK wanted to be back on top in BB and went out and hired Cal. How much did that set the UKAA back? Money wasn't a issue. So why should building a top level FB program in a top level league be a issue?

  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    UK has put more resources into football than it ever has in the history of the school. The problem is, it's an arms race, and UK is lagging behind the SEC severely in fund-raising. There aren't enough people with deep pockets stepping up for football. That's the cold, hard truth.

    That may all be 100% legit JD, but to me... at this point, it's all just more excuses. I'm not buying it anymore. They need to step it up and stop with all the self-pity, poor me excuses. If they (UKAA) want it as bad as us fans do, they will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Where there's a will, there's a way... they either have the "will" or they don't. We shall see.

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  • I want someone to answer me this question. JD says UK has spent more on the football program than at anytime in school history.

    Can someone tell me exactally what the money was spent on and if it was for the football program or was it something that UK also makes a buck on as well?

    The problem I have is with the thinking. I think everyone wants to see improvements made to CWS but to tie the cost of a recruiting room, something that would actually help the recruiting process and the football program, to the 150 Million price tag for a CWS upgrade says to me someone is looking for excuses.

    The new scoreboard and the banner ads are beautiful but they do "0" in recruiting players to UK and UK actually makes money off of them. Does that revenue go to the football program or some sport at UK that allows for free admission or in other words, can't fund itself.

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  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    That may all be 100% legit JD, but to me... at this point, it's all just more excuses. I'm not buying it anymore. They need to step it up and stop with all the self-pity, poor me excuses. If they (UKAA) want it as bad as us fans do, they will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Where there's a will, there's a way... they either have the "will" or they don't. We shall see.

    I agree - great leaders set bold goals. President Kennedy called for us to send a team of men to the moon and return them safely, President Reagan set out to end the cold war. Most people at the time thought those goals far fetch or impossible and no one could see how we would do it but we did, becasue we devoted the energy and the will to a find ways to do it.

    That same principal is valid for athletic programs, for businesses or in personal lives. You just need a leader to lead and others will believe and follow. I'm ready to get out the wallet whenever that happens.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Deeeefense 3 years ago

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  • Deeeefense said... (original post)

    I agree - great leaders set bold goals. President Kennedy called for us to send a team of men to the moon and return them safely, President Reagan set out to end the cold war. Most people at the time thought those goals far fetch or impossible and no one could see how we would do it but we did, becasue we devoted the energy and the will to a find ways to do it.

    That same principal is valid for athletic programs, for businesses or in personal lives. You just need a leader to lead and others will believe and follow. I'm ready to get out the wallet whenever that happens.

    ABSOLUTELY 100% AGREED!!! Great post D... that says it all. (+1) thumbsup

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  • Deeeefense said... (original post)

    I agree - great leaders set bold goals. President Kennedy called for us to send a team of men to the moon and return them safely, President Reagan set out to end the cold war. Most people at the time thought those goals far fetch or impossible and no one could see how we would do it but we did, becasue we devoted the energy and the will to a find ways to do it.

    That same principal is valid for athletic programs, for businesses or in personal lives. You just need a leader to lead and others will believe and follow. I'm ready to get out the wallet whenever that happens.

    Wow, no offense but that's a horrible comparison. The people you are speaking of are leading the greatest country on this earth and had unprecedented resources at their disposal. Might have been a more valid comparison if we were talking about a struggling Alabama, or for our basketball team, but not so much with our football team. In fact, one could argue that we got those things done BECAUSE of the resources we possessed, which is what most people consider to be the issue with our football program in the first place.

    I do like the inspirational nature of your post, and forgive me if I came off as harsh up there.

  • All planning starts by defining the Mission, and from that, long term goals, near term objectives emerge.

    Yes, leaders should set ambitious goals and objectives, but ambitious to me means not only that those who must implement the plan must work hard, and stretch to reach them, but these goals and objectives must also be set at achievable levels.

    The plan also needs measurable targets to monitor actual results against the objectives because any plan must be modified as events occur on the ground.

    I believe that the UKAA and AD should have a huge role in establishing the Mission Statement for the football program, and the AD and the Head Coach should be on the same page in establishing long term goals, and near term objectives. Strategies and tactics become the domain of the coaching staff and to some extent the leadership of the players, the upper class men.

    So, does the UKAA/AD publish a Mission Statement for UK Football? If so, what is it? If not, why not?

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  • MossCat15 said... (original post)

    Wow, no offense but that's a horrible comparison. The people you are speaking of are leading the greatest country on this earth and had unprecedented resources at their disposal. Might have been a more valid comparison if we were talking about a struggling Alabama, or for our basketball team, but not so much with our football team. In fact, one could argue that we got those things done BECAUSE of the resources we possessed, which is what most people consider to be the issue with our football program in the first place.

    I do like the inspirational nature of your post, and forgive me if I came off as harsh up there.

    If I may... D's point was that we need leaders at UK who are not afraid to set bold and lofty goals. His comparison was not horrible at all... and frankly, quite the opposite.

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  • Whitaker568 said... (original post)

    But if Auburn really wanted a top notch BB program they could have one if they A)Went out and hired the right coach. A blank check to the right coach would be hard to turn down. Coaches love money, who doesn't. B) Build better facilities.

    UK wanted to be back on top in BB and went out and hired Cal. How much did that set the UKAA back? Money wasn't a issue. So why should building a top level FB program in a top level league be a issue?

    Auburn has recently hired a new coach and built a new arena, so I guess we will see what happens. So far though, they are still Auburn.

    Comparing our basketball and football teams situations is a huge case of apples and oranges. It is much easier to get back on top if you were there already, not to mention easier to higher a big name coach if the facilities and prestige within the program is already in place. Also, it doesn't really set the UKAA back at all to pay Cal top dollar because so many people are willing to reach in their pocket for our bball program because they've been a winner and are proven. So there lies the issue, no one with deep pockets is willing to step up for our football program.

  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    If I may... D's point was that we need leaders at UK who are not afraid to set bold and lofty goals. His comparison was not horrible at all... and frankly, quite the opposite.

    I get the overall premise of his post, and I wasn't trying to really take anything away from that.

    His comparison, however flys directly in the face with the true issue at hand when it comes to UK Football, and that is MONEY. The reason we (USA) were able to accomplish those things, was BECAUSE of our unlimited resources, which is what most seem to agree on is the primary issue for UK Football. Now had a country like Venezuela been the visionaries to get to the moon first (with the limited resources they have at their disposal), then that would be a similar situation..lol. Catch my drift here?

    This post was edited by MossCat15 3 years ago

  • MossCat15 said... (original post)

    I get the overall premise of his post, and I wasn't trying to really take anything away from that.

    His comparison, however flys directly in the face with the true issue at hand when it comes to UK Football, and that is MONEY. The reason we (USA) were able to accomplish those things, was BECAUSE of our unlimited resources, which is what most seem to agree on is the primary issue for UK Football. Now had a country like Venezuela been the visionaries to get to the moon first (with the limited resources they have at their disposal), then that would be a similar situation..lol. Catch my drift here?

    I completely understand what you are saying... I just respectfully, disagree with the notion that we (UK) are lacking the resources to accommodate any bold, lofty goals.

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  • JawJacker said... (original post)

    I completely understand what you are saying... I just respectfully, disagree with the notion that we (UK) are lacking the resources to accommodate any bold, lofty goals.

    It has been hashed and re-hashed though on this very board. The very few big spenders in our state prefer to put their money into the winner (basketball). I sure hope your right and we can find sone resources somewhere to put together, but IMO we have to put together sone consistency on the field first to bring the big spenders to the table.