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In all fairness..I believe Joker should be allowed to see 2013. UK is very very young now..and there are some promising young players on board. However, that said..I just want to win..and I hate to say it, but I feel Joker is better suited as a playcaller..a OC.
IF we do fire him..who should we get?
I would love to see a Kirby Smart hire. Perhaps Bud Foster. It would make more sense to go with a defensive genius that could keep Randy Sanders on to call the plays. UK has the makings of a potent offense...and has a lot of young talent on defense.
What about Butch Davis? Davis has won everywhere he's been..except Cleveland..but lets look past that. Davis is a elite recruiter..and a defensive mastermind. He turned UNC around in a big way. If we cant hire a home run, game changing Hc..instead of hiring a mabye..id rather stick with Joker. JOker is the only Uk coach to beat Spurrier, and did finally beat Ut last year.
I have a small part of me that thinks that Mitch will keep him. Most of me says Mitch's hand may be forced to let him go. Losing to WKU was more than just being young. Yes, the youth really played horribly in that game, but we still should've been able to close out. However, I do believe that Joker can get us back to a bowl game next yr......I feel that the new coach could as well......but then what?
What if Joker stays, gets the ball rolling, and gets us to regular 6-7 win regular seasons and bowl games, but never really gets us over the hump. I call it 6-7 win purgatory. It's great that we're going to bowl games and he likely would be around for a long time, but is it enough? When do you look to pull the plug then? If he succeeds and gets the occasional 8+ win then all is well, but what if he doesn't?
The flip side is letting him go after the season. The fanbase has already checked out on Joker and is ready to move on. Bring in some new energy and potential. Give them the reigns of the young, talented players we have, and watch what happens. This is probably the most likely senario.
This post was edited by BlueRaider22 19 months ago
I don't care anything about keeping Randy Sanders to call the plays.
The results from here out will have to be pretty damn good for Joker to keep his job. He needs 3 SEC wins to do it. I doubt he gets that done and even then I'm not sure he should be kept.
Bottom line we need someone that has assembled SEC caliber defenses. Find that guy and give him the necessary money to hire a big time OC and DC. Then promise that guy that we'll spend every dollar we can on making this program competitive in the SEC.
I don't see Mitch bringing Butch Davis in. If i'm not mistaken, he had some serious issues with the NCAA at UNC.
Keepin in fresh since 1986.
Not just no, but hell no should any new coach be forced to keep any assistant from this staff. That kind of crap handcuffs a coach from doing what they truely want for their program. The new UK coach gets to assemble his staff, 100%, period. if & when Joker is fired everyone else gets fired as well. Everyone, Sanders, Rock Oliver, EVERYONE.
Some will whisper those kinds of handcuffs were on Joker from the beginning here, that he wanted to get rid of far more assistants when he took the big chair but was not allowed to do so by a penny pinching AD. So he has had to replace staff on a peacemeal basis as assistant's contracts expire (rather than firing and miser Mitch have to pay off 6 months/1 year worth of salary). If a new coach is hired and you hear reports of 2-3 assistants sticking around and no changes in the support staff or the S&C staff just know for a fact Mitch Barnhart is once again meddling and penny pinching UK football once again to the detriment of wins and sucess. And we truely would be no better off than if Joker had just stuck around (until a new AD were in charge).
HUH? Never mentioned Butch Davis. I think you meant to quote the OP.
I completely disagree with everything the OP has to say.
What we have seen the last couple of years has nothing to do with talent or youth. UK is consistently unprepared, unmotivated, and outplayed every time they step on the field.
Joker was a mistake. No going back now, but let's all hope he is gone ASAP. The sooner we can get these coaches out of the program and get a real staff the better.
No excuse for what we see every Saturday. I don't expect yearly SEC championships, but it would be nice not the be the butt of every joke on TV, Forums, and talk radio.
Of course, I don't believe there is a chance in hell Joker is retained. Short of beating UF, UGA, USCE, and some other teams. Way to much money is being lost, and if people thought the ticket sales were bad this year....... bring Joker back. There will be more people at the Trinity/St. X game than there will be in CWS for any game next season.
If we had beaten WKU and gotten to 5 wins I'm convinced Mitch would have kept joker. I've said all along that "good performances against SEC teams and 5 total wins and Joker keeps his job".
It's nearly impossible to imagine either of those happening.
We'll know a lot more around 3pm on saturday. If we compete well against Florida Joker still has a shot. If we get drilled the wheels may start falling off and we might have an interim coach going into the samford game.
Sadly, I think Mitch keeps Joker if we get to 4 wins even (which I think we may). I think 5 wins and that's it, if he doesn't get there he needs to go. 2010 Recruiting class is his, 2011 is his and 2012 is his. 2010 class busted completely.
I've been a consistent defender of Joker, but not anymore. His game management is a D-. With the built-in disadvantages at UK we need an A+ game manager. I can't defend him anymore and he hasn't improved in that regard. He's a 3rd year head coach.
What do his nuts have to do with anything?
To respond to the original poster...
I think Joker is done, sadly. He's a great person, but he just doesn't have what it takes to lead this program. As far as Butch Davis? Did you see the scandal that happened at UNC? Yeah, we don't need that type of drama/attention. IF/WHEN a new coach arrives in Lexington, they need a fully clean state. No Sanders, No Washington (who's a pretty damn good WR coach), no Oliver, etc. I just hope Mitch can convince someone to come here, that won't be a dumpster fire waiting to happen.
Keep Calm & Stoops On..
I agree Blue! You make some very valid points sir. After a taste of the "honey" with a win over LSU..when they won it all...beating Stve Spurrier..the most hated coach in Uk history with apologies to Bob Knight..(LOL) UK wants more..expects more..we have went to 5 bowls in a row..beaten Ga between the hedges, ended the UT streak. Rose to as high as #6 in the nation with gameday here in Lexington. repeated music city bowls isnt enough. That may be why we should KEEP Joker..it looks like hes got a team set up for a run at the SEC east crown in 2013/2014..Max Smith will be a junior..with Towles pushing him hard..and Whitlow. Mobley and Clemons and George and Taylor at TB. Sweat, Legree, Collins, Robinson, Shields..et al at WR/TE. You get the idea..and the defense..will be nasty next year. Im not so in a hurry to hate on Minter..last year..in his 1st full season..our d was pretty stingy..giving up more than 28 points only 4 times in 2011. Next year..I think both sides of the ball have a real shot at being competitive in the SEC..with nearly every other SEc team heavy on SR. and Jr.
OK, then are you willing to give Joker the same chance? joker was handicapped by Steve Brown, Minter's d last season was the best in recent memory..this year there is massive rollover of personnel..we lost Trevathan, Guy, Burden, Mosely, Sneed. Unless we can get a MAJOR hire..a Kirby Smart..Bud Foster..I say lets see what happens next year..and if Joker cant win in season 4 with a junior and sophmore heavy team..then boot him. Unless the hire says WOW..how did Uk get him,..how much did they pay this guy? 4million? 5? Then why hire a guy thats gonna go 5-7 or something and change the whole look of the team..? I dont know..I just want Uk to be a respectable SEC program..a SEc east crown once a decade..sometimes twice..average 9 wins and a BCS bowl every other year..a decent bowl every other year. Boise St..did this..Baylor was far worse off than Uk not 5 years ago. Stanford. Utah. Kansas St. It cant be that hard. Can it?
To the OP ,are you serious? Joker needs to leave as fast as the next train can transport him..
I didn't like the way he turned unc around, that would not be good at UK.
Yeah if Pease gets his way and puts 50 on us, and we get beat badly, it will be all downhill this season. As positive as I am and was, I wasn't demanding wins this years but I did want to see improvement overall the whole team. The offense has been better then last year but not SEC good and the defense is hard to understand so no, I haven't been convinced that this group will be here next year.
The offense has shown a major improvement from last year but the defense is an absolute disaster. This years defense reminds me of last years offense. The defense lost a boat load of talent to graduation just like last years Offense. Losing all four LBs and both CBs was a big blow like the offense losing most of its skill players on last years team was a big blow.
IMO if the UK defense can improve as much as the offense did once its young players get some expirience. I could see UK being very competive next year.,
I too would like to see what this coaching staff could do with next years team instead of a complete new coaching staff coming in with completely new defensive and ofensive schemes. I would have a very different criteria for whether I changed coaches than most on this board. I would monitor the team very closely and measure its improvement from the start of the season to the finish of the season. The improvement of play from week to week and whether the coaching staff could get the team to continue to give good effort would figure more in my decision than the won lost record.
If the offense continued to improve, the defense showed improvement by the latter part of the season, and the recruiting class wasnt a disaster considering that they are recruiting under less than optimal conditions. I would consider keeping the present coaching staff.
Those that say the fans wouldnt come back next year if UK was competive and having a good season are wrong. The stadium would be full and rocking.
The key is going to be "signs of life" in the next two games. If we get drilled Joker is likely done barring something amazing happening against Miss. State. If we can keep the next two within 2 scores and then beat Miss. State Joker has new life. If we get drilled and lose to miss. state there is no way joker keeps his job unless something remarkable happens.
It wasnt Butch..but his recruiting coordinator..John Brown? John something or other...similar to the Mumme incident here..when the rc was reportedly paying recruits. Davis had Miami at the pinnacle of college football..his hurricane teams were far and away the best team in the land for a handful of years untill NFL money swayed him to Cleveland. Butch Davis is an elite football coach. He took a UNC team that was in tatters and had them competeing for ACC titles in a hurry.
If Joker dosent make it..and I really hope he does..I want a defensive minded HC..Davis, Smart, Bud Foster. Either that or a HC with a system that works..ala Boise St.
Very good points here Uklaw!! I agree. I wasnt expecting a great year..we are far too young this season. I do see potential in 2013 for a run at the SEC east crown..Fla, Ga, Sc will have lots of roster turnover..while we will only be getting better, more experienced.
True and we would not get anything like the type of coach we needed if they did not give him total autonomy to select his staff. That's almost a given. However sometimes coaches are encouraged to keep a coach or two off of the old staff. IMO if we hire a defensive guy like Bud Foster for instance I would be in favor of keeping Sanders, but if and only if the new coach is good with that - he would have the final say so.
"Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra
Good points except that if you keep a coach with only 2 years left on his contract he is viewed as a lame duck and it hurts your recruiting class. Therefore they almost have to either give CJP an extension after this year or go a different direction.
Personally I'm fed up with the youth excuse that you mention in the OP. I've been hearing that same excuse virtually every year for over a decade. We're forever young becasue we have such high attrition and that's becasue we have more recruiting misses and non-SEC caliber recruits than anyone else so they leave before their junior year or earlier as we bring in new full classes of what we perceive are better players. It's a vicious cycle that seems to have no end.
A wise man once said, "you are what you're record says you are". That about says it all.
This post was edited by Deeeefense 19 months ago
I agree with you, BB#, but Barnhart didn't find any takers among the good coaches when he turned to an advisor who was helping in the search. That move turned out to be more successful than most expected or hoped for. Brooks brought us to a modestly good level in the SEC.
So Joker gets a buy-out, but that doesn't necessarily mean we'll get an improved situation. IMO, Barnheart is already sending out confidential feelers (at the direction of his superiors) and what happens with Joker will depend on what kind of reception these feelers get. Since our situation is as bad or worse than it was when Brooks came in, I don't see how we could expect to do better in a search now.
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