In partnership with CBSSports.com
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Kooky, i wanna ask you a question (a real question, not an attack or bait or anything that like that) about what you believe this "expectations" mean?
Does that mean demanding HC heads after a bad season? Or anyone's job for that matter. Or protest home games. Im seriously curious to what your definition of "expectations" is.
Tubby Smith was a very successful coach. Great man... Because the program was on a downward trajectory, the fanbase, big money boosters and administration forced Tubby to make changes in his staff...Which got the desired effect in him resigning.
This cultural expectation of winning for basketball does NOT exist for football... Not one iota.
Fans openly blast players performance, style of exciting play, coaching decisions and benchings, recruiting rankings in basketball -
BUT - in regards to football it shall not be done. Then it's the negative fans fault for poor performance, dropped passes and pitiful coaches preparation...
I was a Tubby guy. I thought we were OK... In retrospect, albeit the CBCG experiment was a doomed failure - the pressure and expectation to succeed forced the administrations' hand to produce a winner AND for this Im glad they made a difficult decision to force Tubby out.
For football, I never will protest or boycott games... Those players, regardless of talent level ARE MY GUYS...US. But at some point, the administration should have the fear of God run through them and committ to producing a winner. Expect to win the SEC.
I don't think this cultural shift has started. Brooks did well on the field, but couldn't steer the ocean liner of culture away from the rocks.
USCs culture has changed and now Franklin is talking about doing so at VANDY. If UK were ever to do it, it will be when Florida and Tennessee are less strong. Additionally, I think it all begins and ends with coaching in football. If some dude brings the juice, the money will follow.
Am I calling for Joker's head? Nope.
Maybe if we only get 3 wins this year, but I think we may be better than expected.
This post was edited by Kooky Kats 247 2 years ago
Until you can win games in the SEC, there's not much to be said. Franklin is young and energetic. That attracts prospects, especially given Vandy's academic reputation. He must, I stress MUST, go .500 in SEC play this year or the star starts to dim.
"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." ~ Emerson
So based on this logic, Jokers star has dimmed as well? Joker has to get to .500 in SEC play or ----------? He has an extra year on Franklin in the SEC.
Joker did not explode onto the scene and garner all the hoopla Franklin did. Due to the hype, Franklin needs to make something happen now, IMO. But, Joker is in a precarious situation this season. While it's in the program's best interest for Joker to be successful and give him the time to do so, I'm not sure if Barnhart can afford to do that. Big Blue needs to win and go bowling this fall.
Jokers star dimmed before he even took over the head coaching job. LOL.
In comparing the two, I'm not sure why everyone has gone gaga over Franklin from a production standpoint.
I can see that he's a big personality guy, and he's improved recruiting (2012 saw three 4* guys, compared to UK's one) but his results on the field are identical to Phillips' first season. Vanderbilt was closer in a few SEC games in 2011 than UK was in 2010, but lacked a win over a top 10 team. Vandy was 1-6 against opponents with winning records in 2011, UK was 2-5. Vandy's average margin of loss across the SEC schedule was a little over a field goal (2011), UK's was a little under a touchdown (2010).
Franklin is exciting because he is new to the program and took Vandy to their 3rd bowl game. He landed some 4* Tenn kids after his first season. He may be the next coaching great, and he may elect to stay at Vandy forever. But it's a little early to say that he's "turned the program around" after being HC for one year.
The problem is compounded by UK's poor showing last year. But one (horrific) loss to Vandy does not mean that they and James Franklin have passed UK forever. The narrative says Franklin is awesome and Phillips is awful, but the results on the field haven't shown Franklin to be that far ahead of Phillips.
I keep reading the records for joker and Franklin was the same but didn't joker step into a lot better situation? Joker was taking over a winner with talent. Franklin took over a team coming off a losing season. Franklin is recruiting better with much harder restrictions.
Vandy's 2011 defense had two draft picks (including a 3rd rounder) and another kid who would have been drafted had he not chosen to enroll at Vanderbilt law school. They also had a pretty darn good RB in Stacy. Vandy may have had a losing season in 2010, but I don't think anyone can say that the team was devoid of talent. There was NFL talent on every level of the defense on the 2011 Vandy team.
Basically, it's my opinion that the next couple of years will be what separates Phillips/UK and Franklin/Vandy. Based upon the first year's record for both coaches, I just don't see that much of a difference. Vandy (2011) had a strong defense and a good rushing attack that allowed them to keep most games close. UK (2010) had a strong offense but a porous defense, resulting in ups and downs. Vandy (2011) lost by 5 to the SEC East champs, UK (2010) beat the SEC East champs by 3. Vandy (2011) lost 34-0 to the eventual national champs, UK (2010) lost by 3 to to the eventual national champs.
The elephant in the room is that Vandy beat UK by 30 last year, which I find abominable and devastating. But we get to play them again this year, and every year after that. If they rattle off 3-4 in a row, or we experience another lopsided loss while Vanderbilt goes to another bowl game, I'll be the first to say that Franklin is what he's been made out to be. But I'll reserve judgment until I see what he does in 2012 and beyond.
Franklin won with those games with Bobby Johnson's recruits. Johnson also recruited well the last few seasons and went to a Bowl game. Joker took over a more stable program but the recruiting classes that make up most of the 2010 & 11 upperclassmen where terrible. Go back and look at 2008-09 classes and you will see why Joker is in the spot he's in.
Losing Hartline, Cobb and Matthews and having 2 highly ranked Prep QB's not producing didn't help the cause. Breaking in a DC's system and doing with limited depth hurt as well.
Still after all that Joker was able to make a Bowl game his first season and was 1 game away from making back this past season. The talent level and depth is getting better and recruiting is fine for the 2013 class even with all the dark clouds hanging over Joker. Kids like this coaching staff, they can see where this program is headed. Why can't some fans?
Great post +1
Just to toss this out there...simply because I have no idea why everyone thinks Franklin is the next big coach (maybe he is, but a little early to say). Franklin is doing some great things, marketing Vandy well and making waves in recruiting...but is he worthy of this hype yet?
If UK doesn't go to Nashville last year and drop a deuce on the 50, would Franklin still be getting this glory? Yes, Vandy played ARKY and UGA close. Guess what, we played UGA close too! They also beat UCONN by just 3 points! Not to mention, they lost to UT....ya know, the team we beat with a receiver at QB.
Point being, Vandy did some good things last year. But they didn't exactly set the world on fire. Yet for us, Vandy is on their way to being top dog because they beat us last year, badly of course. But was that really a product of Vandy and Franklin making a great rise in the SEC...or simply because last year we sucked?
You guys make great points and I can't argue with them. The thing is vandy was 2-10 the year before Franklin. He went to a bowl hos first year. That's impressive. Is he the next great coach? I don't know. But he looks to me to have that "it" quality. Whatever "it" is its working for him and Vanderbilt. After him and fridge left Maryland they fell off a cliff.
Minter: why is it that when referring to Joker @ UK, you say that winning is all that matters and excuses need to stop, then turn around and defend Charlie and now Franklin with the same excuses that your telling UK fans to stop using???
How can it be put up or shut up time for Joker (who has been coaching ONE year longer than Franklin and the same amount of time as Charlie) and then you offer up excuse after excuse for someone who went 5-7 with an experienced team and another who has a similar record to Joker while being in one of the worst conferences in America??? Forgive the run-on sentences, but I would live to see you own your words. You talk about accountability, well, try having some for your own words (both in this thread and many more in the past). Your not
Fooling anyone. We all see that everything you put out there is slanted in one direction.
Vandy showed us on the field in a big way last year. And their recruiting is turning heads.
Brooks didn't recruit well his last few years for sure...but UK finished ahead of Vandy every single year in recruiting from 2011 thru 2007...all of those kids were on the field for a 30 point thrashing and all played well above what UK's kids in SEC play last year. To argue Franklin had more talent last year is absurd....he coached his kids while our 4* QB was throwing passes in the dirt, OL could not pick up a blitz to save their life, DE could not shed a block if they have grease on their jersies, KO/punt return game was grade school level exeuction and WR could not catch/make plays all year long.
Last year was a miserable failure on just about every part save Minter's unit at times.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports