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Record: 6210 (3/13/2012)

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Something that is really bothering me

  • While I dont think now is the time to be talking of making a coaching change, there is something that keeps being said is just mind numbing to me. I heard it again last night on Sports Nightly with Dick Gabriel. Someone mentioned that if Joker was fired then the university should spend the big bucks on a big name coach. Dick's reply was that UK could not afford it and that a big name coach would not come here. He is not the first to say this, but I totally disagree. Why cant UK pay an established coach the same as Coach Cal? There is no reason they cant or shouldnt. UK football should be given the same opportunity as basketball. You offer enough money and you will get the coach. Look at USC and Spurrier. He didnt go there because it was a proven winner. This mind set has got to change. I still want to see Joker succeed but if a change is needed then the athletic dept needs to have the same goal in mind as they did when they went after Cal.

  • Something that should be noted regarding Spurrier going to South Carolina is that there is a wealth of homegrown talent in that state that Kentucky lacks. Taking an opportunity to build a winner is more attractive when a significant piece to the puzzle is already in place or easily obtained.

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  • I think it is possible that a name brand coach could land here some day but OTOH you don't necessarily have to have Urbin Myer or Nick Saban to win in the SEC. Florida appears to be doing well with Mushy, and MSU seems to have struck gold with Mullen. Those are just two examples of teams doing well with men who were never head coaches before.

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

  • rompcat said... (original post)

    Something that should be noted regarding Spurrier going to South Carolina is that there is a wealth of homegrown talent in that state that Kentucky lacks. Taking an opportunity to build a winner is more attractive when a significant piece to the puzzle is already in place or easily obtained.

    I don't buy that argument. South Carolina has 21 commit's so far in this years class and a grand total of 4 of them are from in the state of South Carolina.

    The geographical advantage was once a much bigger and more important factor than it is now but with high speed internet, You Tube, mass transportation, and the availability of inexpensive video production equipment, plus that fact that the pool of talent is much larger now that it has been before, it is not that big of a deal.

    This post was edited by Deeeefense 3 years ago

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

  • Deeeefense said... (original post)

    I don't buy that argument. South Carolina has 21 commit's so far in this years class and a grand total of 4 of them are from in the state of South Carolina.

    The geographical advantage was once a much bigger and more important factor than it is now but with high speed internet, You Tube, mass transportation, and the availability of inexpensive video production equipment, plus that fact that the pool of talent is much larger now that it has been before, it is not that big of a deal.

    Apparently Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Oregon and several others have figured out how to compete without huge home grown talent bases, astronomical athletic budgets, big name coaches et al. And yes I know that Okie State and Oregon have rich men behind their program . . . but I bet UK's athletic budget is bigger than either one. I know our football stadium is bigger than either of their stadiums. I also bet we make ten times off basketball what they do.

    Hell, even Wake Forest won the ACC a few years ago and they have like 3000 students total.

    Kentucky makes more excuses for incompetence than any football team in the country. On that issue, we are definitely no. 1.

    This post was edited by Tskware 3 years ago

  • Deeeefense said... (original post)

    I don't buy that argument. South Carolina has 21 commit's so far in this years class and a grand total of 4 of them are from in the state of South Carolina.

    The geographical advantage was once a much bigger and more important factor than it is now but with high speed internet, You Tube, mass transportation, and the availability of inexpensive video production equipment, plush that fact that there poole of talent is much larger now that it has been before, it is not that big of a deal.

    But, I think it is still fair to state that the ole ball coach built South Carolina into what it is by making use of its exceptional homegrown talent. Whether or not he still makes as much use of it as possible now that he has built it up does not mean that it was not a part of the foundation he built upon or attraction for accepting the challenge.

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  • mtk4uk said... (original post)

    While I dont think now is the time to be talking of making a coaching change, there is something that keeps being said is just mind numbing to me. I heard it again last night on Sports Nightly with Dick Gabriel. Someone mentioned that if Joker was fired then the university should spend the big bucks on a big name coach. Dick's reply was that UK could not afford it and that a big name coach would not come here. He is not the first to say this, but I totally disagree. Why cant UK pay an established coach the same as Coach Cal? There is no reason they cant or shouldnt. UK football should be given the same opportunity as basketball. You offer enough money and you will get the coach. Look at USC and Spurrier. He didnt go there because it was a proven winner. This mind set has got to change. I still want to see Joker succeed but if a change is needed then the athletic dept needs to have the same goal in mind as they did when they went after Cal.

    Dick Gabriel and Tom Screech will never, ever do anything but walk the company line.

  • Brooks has seen it. Everyone sees it. Unless UK is willing to pony up money it's not going to happen. UK makes good money from football. They should see it as an investment to pay for a good quality coach.

    I'm not ready to switch out Joker yet. I don't think he's had the opportunity to show what he can do. However, I was not really for his hiring in the first place. Well, at least not as the head-coach-in-waiting. We should have done a search. I think there are more well qualified people out there we could have considered.

  • I think what he means is that the $$$ required to get an Urban Meyer-type name to Lexington would be above and beyond what those guys are currently making. If Florida was paying him $3-4M, it would likely cost UK $5-6M. They can't afford that kind of dough.

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  • BlueGhost said... (original post)

    Brooks has seen it. Everyone sees it. Unless UK is willing to pony up money it's not going to happen. UK makes good money from football. They should see it as an investment to pay for a good quality coach.

    I'm not ready to switch out Joker yet. I don't think he's had the opportunity to show what he can do. However, I was not really for his hiring in the first place. Well, at least not as the head-coach-in-waiting. We should have done a search. I think there are more well qualified people out there we could have considered.

    UK's not the one that needs to pony up. It's donors and boosters.

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    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

  • I am a huge FB Fan and have been a large donor for years. However, the number of number of donors have diminished over the years for various reasons. This trend will continue until the Athletics administration decides to address those issues.

    It is the chicken/egg scenario. If you get the right dynamic leader in FB the money will come. Until that happens Apathy will continue to grow more rampant.

    Perry Bozarth
    McVey Fellow

  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    UK's not the one that needs to pony up. It's donors and boosters.

    That's a chicken or egg deal. Boosters are not going to put money into it until they see commitment from UK. UK has a lot of cash coming in from football. They could stand to go for a decent coach if it will get the gravy train running.

  • That is really my whole gripe here. It seems that UK and everyone involved is more than willing to put out the cash for basketball but not for the football program. I want Joker to succeed, I really do, but I just grow tired of the whole argument of to little money when it comes to football.

  • You may be right about that, but one thing is certain: it won't happen without the funding. For UK to compete with the "big boys" in this league, it's got to start from deep-pocketed boosters who desire to see the program get to the next level. Withholding it (presumably due to MB?) doesn't exactly make sense to me. is the gpal to run him off? I think the University powers that be are pleased with his performance, so I don't see that as a likely scenario.

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    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

  • mtk4uk said... (original post)

    That is really my whole gripe here. It seems that UK and everyone involved is more than willing to put out the cash for basketball but not for the football program. I want Joker to succeed, I really do, but I just grow tired of the whole argument of to little money when it comes to football.

    The $$$$ walks in the door for basketball. It just simply doesn't for football. I know Football is the bigger revenue sport, but basketball is driving the Kfund bus, no question about it. Take a look at the new lodge, how many doors did Mitch have to knock on to get that done? I don't see anyone stepping up like this for football.

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  • mtk4uk said... (original post)

    Do you have anything nice or productive to say about anyone or anything? Every post is like this. Goodness. no

    Agreed. He and hotdice are rays of sunshine for the board.

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    "Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." ~ Emerson

  • One thing that rarely gets talked about anymore is the increased funding from the fans. My season ticket prices have tripled since Barnhart took over and the arguement has always been that if we want to compete in the SEC then we, as fans, have to increase our financial support. We have done that but we really haven't seen much sustained improvement in the overall football team. Yes we have gone to 5 straight bowls and given our history I think that is a notable accomplishment but with so many bowls and a 12 game schedule it is not that difficult to go to a lower teir bowl.

    What we as fans should expect is a team that is consistently competitive in the SEC. We rarely are. I think Brooks laid a solid foundation and now it is time to take another step up the SEC pecking order. So far in year 2 of the Joker regime we have taken a step back.

    I am as diehard UK fan as anyone but shelling out $3k a year for season tix to see an uncompetitve team is becoming hard to justify. Let's face it, college sports are supposed to be entertainment and fun. Did anyone have much fun watching the teams's performance at the Florida game?

    If the administration doesn't do something to improve the football program they are going to start losing a segment of the fanbase and that means they are going to lose financial support from those fans.

  • iamtrueblue said... (original post)

    One thing that rarely gets talked about anymore is the increased funding from the fans. My season ticket prices have tripled since Barnhart took over and the arguement has always been that if we want to compete in the SEC then we, as fans, have to increase our financial support. We have done that but we really haven't seen much sustained improvement in the overall football team. Yes we have gone to 5 straight bowls and given our history I think that is a notable accomplishment but with so many bowls and a 12 game schedule it is not that difficult to go to a lower teir bowl.

    What we as fans should expect is a team that is consistently competitive in the SEC. We rarely are. I think Brooks laid a solid foundation and now it is time to take another step up the SEC pecking order. So far in year 2 of the Joker regime we have taken a step back.

    I am as diehard UK fan as anyone but shelling out $3k a year for season tix to see an uncompetitve team is becoming hard to justify. Let's face it, college sports are supposed to be entertainment and fun. Did anyone have much fun watching the teams's performance at the Florida game?

    If the administration doesn't do something to improve the football program they are going to start losing a segment of the fanbase and that means they are going to lose financial support from those fans.

    I am right there with you. My two tix cost $1600 and I couldn't even get anyone to go with me to see the Florida game, everyone knew it was going to be non competitive, just like always, even though as it turns out, Florida is not really even a top ten team this season.

    I remember 20 years ago that CM Newton got Claiborne to work on the fund drive for the Nutter Fieldhouse after he retired, and called it "the last piece of the puzzle". Well I ponied up (my name is on the wall of donors in there), but nothing changed other than ten more years of bad football.

    Just in the last ten or twelve years, we have added a larger stadium, new practice fields (thanks, Tim Couch), luxury boxes, renovated coaches offices, etc. At some point, you have to step back and ask if the problem TRULY is lack of money and facilities, or is it something more basic like lack of vision/leadership in the AD office coupled with years and years of dull and downright bad coaching hires.

  • iamtrueblue said... (original post)

    One thing that rarely gets talked about anymore is the increased funding from the fans. My season ticket prices have tripled since Barnhart took over and the arguement has always been that if we want to compete in the SEC then we, as fans, have to increase our financial support. We have done that but we really haven't seen much sustained improvement in the overall football team. Yes we have gone to 5 straight bowls and given our history I think that is a notable accomplishment but with so many bowls and a 12 game schedule it is not that difficult to go to a lower teir bowl.

    What we as fans should expect is a team that is consistently competitive in the SEC. We rarely are. I think Brooks laid a solid foundation and now it is time to take another step up the SEC pecking order. So far in year 2 of the Joker regime we have taken a step back.

    I am as diehard UK fan as anyone but shelling out $3k a year for season tix to see an uncompetitve team is becoming hard to justify. Let's face it, college sports are supposed to be entertainment and fun. Did anyone have much fun watching the teams's performance at the Florida game?

    If the administration doesn't do something to improve the football program they are going to start losing a segment of the fanbase and that means they are going to lose financial support from those fans.

    I am right there with you. I have been buying season tickets for years with the hope that we would break through and have a big year or hire a new exciting coach. Despite where I sit the stands are full of people who scalped the seats for half price. It looks like we have hit a mid decade high water mark for UKFB and are now on the way down into the 6-10 year cycle. With every game on TV and what is one of the worst teams I have seen in many years I also am considering just putting it all aside and winging it.

    One point, I don't believe that Barnhart was that instrumental in either of the coaching changes in basketball other than hiring Gillispie. I think the internal University powers continue to be willing to take chances and spend money on basketball and not football. The changes in basketball took place due to outside pressure so much that Todd and Barnhart didn't feel that they could hold them back. I think the pressure for better football is not that strong and Barnhart is more secure stonewalling them and running things on his own terms.

  • Tskware said... (original post)

    or is it something more basic like lack of vision/leadership in the AD office coupled with years and years of dull and downright bad coaching hires.

    Bingo!

  • I think at least some if not a good part of the blame for our current woes is the result of poor recruiting in the 2007 and 2008 classes. I went back and looked at the players in those classes and we only have 5 out of the 2007 class and 8 out of the 2008 class who are either starters or significant backups. That's 13 players out of 50 commits, and the only real difference makers in those classes IMO were Cobb who left early and Hines. All the others are very average at best players. That's your problem right there. We needed a couple of quality receivers, running backs and maybe at least one tight end out of those classes that would be the nucleus of your offensive skill set right now. We have none of that, and it shows on the field.

    I agree with most of the comments above on facilities and coaching, but I think Brooks does not escape innocent here and maybe should be shouldering more of the blame right now. So while I think the jury is still out on Joker, he wasn't dealt quite the strong hand that everyone seems to think he was.

    This post was edited by Deeeefense 3 years ago

    "Ignorance is constricted awareness" - Deepak Chopra

  • Jeff Drummond said... (original post)

    UK's not the one that needs to pony up. It's donors and boosters.

    Jeff when we hired Joker we raised our out of pocket for Coaching alone over 1M per year, closer to 1.3M and that was promoting within for a Coach who had not one minute of HC'ing experience. Rich had ask for 500K to improve his staff and wanted to stay 2 more years. There's no reason to believe had Rich Brooks been given the exact increase in funding to enrich his coaching staff we wouldn't have seen our program move forward at least another half step possibly a full one in the two additional years he desired. Plus that could have given Joker a little more time to observe and learn giving him a better opportunity at success in the long run.

    But for whatever reason Mitch and Joker couldn't wait & let Rich leave on his own terms(which IMHO he had earned). After watching the program the past year and half it's obvious to me Joker wasn't near ready and Rich wasn't given the time to prepare the program to the best possible point to enable Joker his best chance at success.

    As boosters are concerned and them putting up the money......I don't see that happening with the current Coaching staff due to what we've witnessed since the change was made, but I do believe there are boosters and supporters who are willing to help, just not now with this staff and the disorganization that seems to have set in. Those folks want to see something positive in practice and on the field on game days.

    All one needs to do is observe the sidelines during a game to see the negative change and disorganization that has occurred in a very short period of time, let alone viewing a practice or two like in B-Ham last year before the bowl game. There was no resemblance to the practices and organization we had just a single year before.

    I was all for continuing the current positive era we had going by promoting from within(that was the whole idea), but not only has that era stopped, it seemed to begin to slide downward almost from the day the change was announced. Yes we brought in some good recruiters, but somewhere along the line it seems we forgot we must have coaches who are able to coach kids up. Maybe we have them, but if we do they must be allowed to do their jobs, something we've yet to see happen. We also must utilize our talent by running a system that takes advantage of the positives, not exposing our weaknesses.

    This post was edited by abud4me 3 years ago

  • Deeeefense said... (original post)


    I agree with most of the comments above on facilities and coaching, but I think Brooks does not escape innocent here and maybe should be shouldering more of the blame right now. So while I think the jury is still out on Joker, he wasn't dealt quite the strong hand that everyone seems to think he was.

    Tend to agree with you on that point.

  • "Yes we brought in some good recruiters, but somewhere along the line it seems we forgot we must have coaches who are able to coach kids up. "

    You said a mouthful right there. I'm beginning to wonder if our ace recruiter hires came at the expense of seasoned game coaches. Take T. Martin for example. It is undeniable that he is one of the best up-and-coming recruiters in the game and gets glowing reviews. However he is coaching the WRs and I can honestly say it is the worst group of D1 receivers I've ever seen assembled. Ever! There is talent there but they are underachieving big time. So is it smart to put a young, former QB with no former WR coaching experience in charge of a group of inexperienced WRs? Isn't our head coach a former WR who has played and coached the position for decades? Why isn't his impact being felt there? If the team's most glaring weakness happens to be one of the head coach's primary areas of expertise, what does that say about his influence and ability to lead?

    Just more food for thought. I think we all want UK to get over the hump but we need to see signs of improvement, not backsliding. I cannot find any valid excuses to ever be in the bottom 10 nationally in so many offensive categories. Poor playcalling, poor schemes, poor coaching up, poor execution, poor recruiting. It is simply inexcusable given that our coaches make very respectable salaries.

  • iamtrueblue said... (original post)

    "Yes we brought in some good recruiters, but somewhere along the line it seems we forgot we must have coaches who are able to coach kids up. "

    You said a mouthful right there. I'm beginning to wonder if our ace recruiter hires came at the expense of seasoned game coaches. Take T. Martin for example. It is undeniable that he is one of the best up-and-coming recruiters in the game and gets glowing reviews. However he is coaching the WRs and I can honestly say it is the worst group of D1 receivers I've ever seen assembled. Ever! There is talent there but they are underachieving big time. So is it smart to put a young, former QB with no former WR coaching experience in charge of a group of inexperienced WRs? Isn't our head coach a former WR who has played and coached the position for decades? Why isn't his impact being felt there? If the team's most glaring weakness happens to be one of the head coach's primary areas of expertise, what does that say about his influence and ability to lead?

    Just more food for thought. I think we all want UK to get over the hump but we need to see signs of improvement, not backsliding. I cannot find any valid excuses to ever be in the bottom 10 nationally in so many offensive categories. Poor playcalling, poor schemes, poor coaching up, poor execution, poor recruiting. It is simply inexcusable given that our coaches make very respectable salaries.

    Hit the nail on the head, Post of the day.

  • Also, agree. Why would the University keep this staff in place next year if this season yields only 3 or 4 wins.

    What other SEC University, besides Vandy, would retain this staff for another year and take a chance on losing several million dollars in revenue?