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Honestly who would want to go to a school and be called a terp? lol
So bottom line, are you going to join the thousands of other haters if we get the twins?
We'd hate if we lost out on the Twins but we'd hate anyone for that.
My suspicion is most Maryland fans didn't like Cal long before he went to Kentucky. These days, there's no disassocation between Cal/Kentucky so I'm sure the vast majority are waist deep in loathing. Even getting the Twins wouldn't change that.
For my part, I was apathetic towards UK. Acknowledgment of blue blood pedigree, but not nearly enough confrontations to inspire venom. I remember taking an interest in Wayne Turner's near perfect final four career and subsequently, Tubby Smith in his time there. But for all the high-stakes recruitments and petty reasoning out there, I think most newer haterz just don't like Cal.
Conversely, I've always admired the Maryland program from afar. I think you can draw a lot of parallels between the careers of Tubby Smith and Gary Williams. I'm a big fan of both.
I'm sure I'll drum some "hate" up for 2 hours this November for the game in Brooklyn. But overall I respect the program for what it is . An elite brand name in college hoops. Great arena. Rabid fanbase. Losing the Twins to Kentucky would hurt 100x less than losing them to UNC or Duke anyway. If UK wins the battle then we'll just move on. It's not like I'm guaranteeing Maryland lands them or anything close.
All we're talking about here is the perception that UK is the overwhelming favorite, which in my opinion is based on almost no info. The tact here seems to be "We're Kentucky. Cal always wins these battles. Therefore..." Which to me isn't sound logic at all given the specific types of advantages Maryland has in this recruitment (long-time family relationships with Bino Ransom/Turgeon, grandparents in Baltimore, Under Armor). That's all I'm saying. No hate for the Wildcats and no hate for the Twins if they go that way. Kentucky makes a ton of sense for them for a lot of obvious reasons.
This post was edited by macterp 20 months ago
Well Cal has had 15 players drafted since he's been at UK. Cal has had 3 number 1 picks since 2008. 7 top five picks since that same year (Kanter included).
Maryland has 3 draft picks since '08 and only one first rounder.
There are your facts and a huge reason these players flock to Cal.
This post was edited by Nate87 20 months ago
Scott Drew just seems like a wretched, wretched floor coach. Like he's there to administer substitution patterns and posture and the rest is unbridled talent going as far as it can.
I agree. Looks like he tends to ride his talent about as far as it will go and not an inch further.
I guess these "facts" ended his argument.
At this point I don't think either fanbase is distinguishing between reasonable debate and board eccentrics. Everyone's just dug in and treating it all w/ an eye roll...To your facts, I didn't verify them but few if any of us are naive to those #'s. The #'s are probably similar but you might be more accurate citing Turgeon's #'s than MD's given the coaching change. Semantics probably.
Anyway, here's your previous post (since I'm too stupid to know how to double quote):
If they don't come to UK then you'll be watching out for pig sh!t. One reason they will come to Lex and that's Andrew. Cal has landed his primary PG target every year since Rose. Highly doubt that will change when it will guarantee both players will be lotto picks after one year. Both would be drafted after one season at UMD sure, but lotto picks? Yeah, won't happen.
I'm not being condescending or rude I'm just stating facts for you. This isn't just UK fans who look at it this way. Recruits, national analysts, NBA scouts, and executives see the same thing.
I'm a huge UK fan, but I'll admit that this recent success is mainly Cal. I don't want to sound arrogant to a program and it's fan I respect. The twins can be successful there, just not as fast thanks to Cal. It's just the way it is."
They won't both be lotto picks after one season @ MD, but they're guaranteed to be @ Kentucky? That's not a fact. Yes, all those draft figures you're spitting in the more recent post are true. But there needs to be some acknowledgment as to what type of talent each program is getting to start. That Eric Hayes, Greivis Vasquez, Peshon Howard, and Terrell Stoglin didn't go lotto isn't much of case for saying that 2, top 5 players wouldn't be lotto picks after a year @ MD. Cal's great at fast-tracking kids to the league but the perception that kid x or kid y needs Kentucky to do it is overblown. Your statement's a logical fallacy given the discrepancy of talent they're getting to start with.
What Cal is exceptional at is blending an overdose of young talent and big egos into coexistence. His system works because he's a modern day pioneer (of sorts) in terms of prioritizing talent over sub-concerns like experience and class balance. It's been done before, just not to his year to year extreme. It's a system that puts a tremendous strain on year to year recruiting, but also genius because it becomes a system that sells itself (come to Kentucky and shake Stern's hand a year later). Think Kentucky and you think youth-friendly. Because so many kids want to fast-track to the league, Kentucky is always going to dominate the landscape. It doesn't hurt that Rupp's a great environment and Ashley Judd tops are form fitting.
In what I believe to be a close race I would bet on the Twins going to Kentucky. I'm mostly taking issue with the sub argument...
Your post is too definitive in saying we can't put them in the lottery. The reality is, the NBA is a league that has almost always prized potential over productivity. Kentucky is built to overturn and replace talent year after year. It's the chicken or the egg. Cal's good w/ player development and making a team out of individuals. But the NBA #'s are probably skewed because of the incoming talent (and subsequent roster overturn being replaced by more incoming talent) to start. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Only a handful of programs out there could even attempt to recruit the way Cal does. If he's grabbing half of the top 10 each year and a few other blue bloods grab the rest, Maryland isn't starting off w/ the same kinda talent and in terms of player development, the road isn't as long for a #1 kid vs a #70 kid that has way more holes. Subsequently, we don't have a resume where we can say "come to MD, you'll be lotto in a year". Though I think we believe that's the case if we can get the elite talent.
And I think that's one of the hypotheticals causing disagreement all around. Cal can point to the NBA track record and a resume. I'm being more analytical and saying what does it matter, if you're good you're good. There are flops and there are cases of player misuse that will kill draft stock to be sure. Scott Drew's the type of a guy I'd say represents that. But I don't think Maryland/Turgeon is that. We're not talking about working miracles or performing magic. All we're saying is do these programs get them to fulfill potential? I pretty much think the answer is both would. But Calipari has a resume he can point to and a roster design friendly to Stats like the one you cited. We don't. The Twins are us trying to breakthrough and prove --- what a lot of MD fans are arguing --- on paper.
Well it seems the Harrisons moved up in ESPN's rankings Andrew's #2 and Aaron to #4.
Seems like they moved up in pretty much all the rankings across the board.
Yeah it does. I know a lot of people and places have been raving about Aaron lately, he's been having some pretty good games.
This is 100% false. They may end up at Kentucky, but it won't be because Andrew is the one pulling them there.
Well UK's recruiting had fallen off prior to Cal, but by all accounts has been pretty stellar since. When you talk about placing kids in the league, Maryland has paled in comparison over the last half decade, but things are changing. Turgeon has us pointed in the right direction so I think that disparity in draft picks will close. Now I am not going to say that Turge is as good a recruiter as Cal, but he seems pretty hard at it and I think the near future results will speak for themselves. God bless Gary, but he just gave up, and we are bearing the fruits of his non recruiting. However, things are different now, and the whole country will figure that out shortly.
Good luck, you all have a great program.
Thanks for the awful, backhanded compliment, oh moderator of level-headed discussion!
Tubby and Gary? Seriously?
"The biggest losers in life are people correcting message board grammar . Fact not opinion"
Tubby > Gary
Without question, the twins could go to Maryland & still be lottery picks next year. It's ludicrous to suggest that can only happen at UK. However, I think its fair to say the odds are much, much higher at UK than at Maryland. When you factor in the national exposure gained at UK, and the chance to win a national title, that's when UK starts to pull away from the pack.
There's a reason why anyone connected is saying the Harrisons will end up at UK. It's the same reason people knew guys like Wall, Knight, & MKG were ultimately going to play for Cal...no matter how long the recruitments played out. Sometimes, recruits make their opinions about a school known early on in the recruiting process. When a kid is saying he wants to play for a particular coach over & over again, it's not hard to predict where he (or in the twins case, they) is going to end up. Maryland is mentioned because of Under Armour & it's probably the father's preference, but in the end, the twins will pick the school they've wanted to attend for three years.
Hmm... Tubby's winning % is actually very comparable to Gary's....FACT. While at Uk, he is at about 75% while Gary was in the mid 60s...FACT. They both have won one national championship, and Tubby won 5 SEC regular season champions and 5 SEC tournaments while Gary won only 1 Acc tournament and 3 regular season titles. Tubby has won AP coach of the year, I do not know if Williams has (can you enlighten us?). Oh, and Tubby had 6 sweet sixteens and 4 elite eights since winning the ship in 98, which isn't great by our standards, but may warrant a statue at your school. Lastly, Tubby got to 100 wins faster than any UK coach not named Adolph Rupp. Yes, Gary was a head coach a lot longer so he has a shit load of wins, but with all those extra years he really hasnt done any more than Tubby.
You clearly have no sense of history. Tubby took over a National Championship caliber team from the get-go. And rode that pig tail for a few years until the recruits weren't impressive, and stopped being a contender. Still above average, but no where near what he took over. On the flip side, Gary took over a complete disaster and was forced to take his lumps, but put everything into it and turned it into a national power until he was not able to recruit at a big time level (by choice. he HATED playing the AAU game and lost many very talented kids because of it.) They went on completely different at their respective schools.
Why would these facts show anything? I have a few really quick questions:
First: Why would Kanter be included? He would have been a top five kid anyway. Everyone knew him before he committed to Kentucky.
Second: You mention the 3 #1 picks. Out of Curiosity, where were they ranked out of high school? All #1 or two anyway? Derrick Rose was in SI in H.S. article that said he'd have been #1 out of H.S. if he could have. That was before he picked Memphis. So, really, No Cal factor there. I don't know much about Wall. Maybe he was helped by the "Cal" factor. But, Anthony Davis was being pushed as the best player before he walked through the door. Sometimes, you are the number one pick because you are just that talented, and CAL has nothing to do with that.
Third: as far as all of the Kentucky guys drafted, how many were not a four or five star 'spect? Serious question. I don't even know who they are. I can tell you, the 3 guys drafted from Maryland, ZERO were. Maryland hadn't had a guy in the top 50 since Mike Jones. Shaq Cleare finally broke that.
Now, not a question, but a comment. Mark Turgeon is not Gary Williams when recruiting is the topic. He'll play the game. He took Jake Layman away from Billy Donovan, Jim Boeheim, Rick Pitino, etc. And, as far as the TWINS are concerned, when Turg was at A&M, the twins had A&M in their final five (along with Maryland). the moment he left, the aggies were off the list. Their dad LOVES Turge.
I think it's a 55-45 Kentucky lean, but those saying 75 are crazy off.
Without bothering to read your entire post let me name two top recruits Quincy Miller and Josh Selby. I'd put good money on it had either ended up at UK they would be lotto picks. They didn't and the rest is history.
Plus, my point is still valid since '08 Maryland has 3 draft picks and Cal has 3 of the last 5 #1 picks. That obviously irritates you, but it's a fact. Cal prepares these kids for the pros better than anyone.
I'm not saying the twins couldn't be lotto picks after one year with UMD, rather it's less likely than if they attended UK. I don't see how that is so hard for you all to understand. It's the same if they picked UNC over UMD.
Lastly, if you all are so confident it is as close as you claim what is point of coming here and trolling? Why not sit back quietly and confidently until the recruitment is over?
Good God, this "Debate" is still going on? We get it, Maryland fans: you think you have a legit shot at the Twins. Congrats. We'll see where they go when they decide.
Keep Calm & Stoops On..
Hello, Did you forget about us? Maryland wasn't a doormat by any means. Maryland has a good history prior to Williams arrival. Tubby Smith couldn't recruit at UK because he refused to deal with the AAU coaches also... hmmm.... another similarity.
& Burton Shipley
This post was edited by cobbycobb 20 months ago
The fact is a coach can hinder a player tremendously in college. Ben Howland seems to be really good at it. Cal doesn't hinder a guy. He lets them play and puts them in position to be successful. So not only can the kids win and win big as shown last year, they can also maximize their draft potential. The Twins know this as do many other kids which is why UK consistently shows up as the favorite for many top kids.
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