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I think he will give him a shot at his position of preference much like Caffey. I do think that he'll end up as a "Cobb" type of player. He's not going to get much PT as a true QB with the guys we already have.
I think Joker gives kids a chance to start out on the position they want to play, even if it's not their best college position. That may be part of selling a kid to UK. If the kid is smart and wants PT then he will likely move to the position the staff wants him at when he realizes that the staff knows best. Caffey is a perfect example. Caffey was promised a shot at RB and realized that CB was his future. I'm fine with Joker using this in recruiting.
As I recall, this is the same sort of thing we did with Wesley Woodyard when he was here correct? Didn't he come to us as a safety then see his potential to add weight, keep his speed and moved him to LB? That worked out pretty well for him
That would be great if we were bringing in players fom out of state that we got after they had been picked over by their in state teams that were contributing but the large number of Kentucky kids that are starting and contributing seems to indicate this just isnt happening. You list Florida which does produce a lot of good players but UK doesnt seem to be getting many from there that contribute because there is only 2 or 3 starters on the team from Florida. The state of Tennesee has more starters on UKs team than Florida.
I've been around the South and seen HS games and believe me when I tell you this. You can basically subtract a star when comparing Kentucky kids to those from Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and it's due to competition and genetics. Not only do these kids play against better kids in games, they do so every day in practice. By and large Kentucky kids just don't stack up.
That's the point I've been trying to make this entire thread and I hate it because it makes me feel like a bastard who doesn't care about ky kids. That's not the case at all. Those southern states mentioned above simply breed a much deeper and talented group of kids. Like I've said, for years all I've heard from several "fans" is how we don't pull enough FL kids, now we have nearly half our class so far from Florida and now we aren't winning enough instate kids.
It so simply proves IMO that regardless of who our coach is or what we doing on the field or recruiting wise, there is always going to back a section of the fanbase simply unhappy, unsatisfied, and bitching about something. It is truly a shame we can't have a unified fanbase like we have with hoops
You said Newton, that makes me smile. I was on his bandwagon all the way up till last yr with his body language and the way the way the team seemed to have rallied around Mad Max, I wish Mr. Newton well he seems to be a great young man but don't think he will play a great roll at qb here anymore.
Imo this is Max team till someone can step up and take it from him.
I'm by no means bashing Newton I really pulled for him and even said something like he would have 2500 yrds 20+ tds last year so i really thought he would lead us, but I was wrong I'm man enough to admit that
I have no problem where kids come from as long as they have the talent to make it in the SEC. The problem I see is if as you say the kids down south are so much better than UK kids why is there so many Kentucky kids number one at their position on the depth chart.
Either the Kentucky kids are better than some think or UK just isnt getting any of those good kids from down south.
I understand what you are saying about the fever for football down south. I was stationed in Texas while in the USAF and high school football was near religion status there. If UK could get in with some of those Texas kids it would be a big help.
Its simple, the Kentucky kids that are number 1 at their spot on the depth chart because they are older and more experienced. Joker has only had a couple years of recruiting and most of the better prospects we have gotten from out of state are still young. Almost all of the Kentucky kids starting right now have more talented kids behind them on the depth chart that we are just waiting to grow up. We aren't getting the sure fire, 4 and 5 star guys that are ready to contribute right now from out of state or in-state, so it's going to take some time for these kids from out of state to overtake their in state counterparts. IMO you will see the number of Kentucky kids start to drop drastically this year and next year.
I think everyone agrees that we do need the TOP talent in Kentucky to stay home, but IMO even this year there are only 4 or 5 guys that you couldn't go find a better player from Florida or Georgia, and that number is usually more like 3 on a typical year. The thing is we have to elevate our status as a program to make these kids more receptive to staying home. We need better players to do that and all of those players are located in Florida and Georgia for the most part.
This post was edited by MossCat15 21 months ago
There are cover 2 schemes in a 34...
No - it's not either or. UK has been moving it's recruiting efforts more and more to the southern states and our roster makeup shows as much.
Kentucky kids that will be starters this fall:
LT Darrian Miller - Soph: four star and we have no one else
LG Zach West - Fr: three star and we basically have no one else
C Matt Smith - Sr: converted D-lineman, Remington watch list and we have no one else
RG Larry Warford - Sr: three star recruit, possible All SEC and we have no one else
WR LaRod King - Sr: three star recruit, most productive returnee surrounded by a bunch of youngsters and two Kentucky kids that have made little to no impact - four star Aaron Boyd and three star EJ Fields
K Craig McIntosh - Sr: he's a kicker - they're all a gamble coming out of high school
NT Mister Cobble - Jr: three star recruit and we have no other true NT on the team
SLB Miles Simpson - So: three star recruit has seen little playing time to this point
FS - Mikie Benton - Sr: walkon that will be hard-pressed to hold off Ashley Lowery
So - Eight or possibly only seven (Benton/Lowery) of the 22 starting spots are Kentucky players. Next year that number will decrease as Miller, Cobble, Simpson or Forrest and possibly West will likely be starters.
No - by and large football talent in Kentucky high schools doesn't compare favorably at all with the southern states mentioned.
I'll take 3 star Georgia/Florida kids over 3 star Kentucky kids every day of the week and twice on Sundays and it appears our staff is of the same mindset.
This post was edited by IamRV 21 months ago
No. I'm saying they didn't produce last year.
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK
I think that's a pretty fair take. To the extent the Commonwealth produces top tier talent, UK needs to land its share. IMO, UK's best chance of landing the elite sort of recruits is when they are available in-state. That said, UK will continue to fill most of its roster from out-of-state, where it can generally find bigger, faster kids capable of competing in the SEC.
This year's in-state recruiting class appears to have an abnormally high number of top end guys -- I would say 6 -- Bivin, Quick, Hatcher, White, Hyde, and Timmons (some may thrown Bolin from Lex Cath in there as well). It's looking like UK will do well to land 2 of those 6. Long term, that percentage needs to be higher. In most years, there are 2-4 kids of that caliber available in-state. .
If you look at UK's NFL draft picks (and free agents who have made rosters) going back to 1996, those players have been pretty evenly split among in-state vs. out-of-state guys. In-state guys include Winston Guy (Lex Cath), Jacob Tamme (Boyle), Tim Masthay (Murray), Alfonso Smith (Waggoner), Micah Johnson (Ft. Campbell), Garry Williams (Seneca), Myron Pryor (Eastern?), Corey Peters (Louisville Central), Jared Lorenzen (Highlands), Andre Woodson (North Hardin), Dennis Johnson (Harrodsburg), and Kio Sanford (Bryan Station). Out-of-state guys include Danny Trevathan (FLA), Randall Cobb (TN), Jeremy Jarmon (TN) , Wesley Woodyard (GA), John Conner (OH), Stevie Johnson (CA), Trevard Lindley (GA), Dewayne Robertson (TN), Derek Abney (WI), Sweat Pea Burns (GA), Otis Grigsby (TX?), James Whalen (?), Moe Williams (GA), Marlon McCree (FLA), Eric Kelly (FLA), Quinten McCord (GA),Van Hiles (GA), Chris Ward (?), and Reggie Rusk (?). UofL's roster was comprised of many Florida kids when they were at their strongest, although the absolute best years featured home grown talents like Brohm and Bush.
Couple of things.
- Pretty well says the stars system is screwed up if you can't compare across states.
- We shouldn't be so high on Towles.
You won't find many who are higher on Towels than me, and I attribute much of my giddyness to having seen him play once. Is he a "sure thing"? No, and the level of competition he has faced up to this point has some to do with that, along with the fact that you could write a long chapter about QBs far more highly rated than Pat Towels that have either flopped outright or had very pedestrian careers. The QB position is hands down the toughest position to say how a kid will perform at the next level. That said, I think Towels will be outstanding, not only because of his physical attributes and arm, but because of the head he has on his shoulders and the intangibiles he seems to have at this age.
The after spring depth chart list these Kentucky kids as number one at their position: OT Miller, OG West, Center Smith, OG Warford,WR King, WR Fields,NT Cobble, LB McDuffin, S/LB Simpson, S Benton, and PK McIntosh. That is ten plus the place Kicker. There might be changes after fall camp but at this time there is 10 Kentucky kids and the Place kicker number one at their position.
It seems that the people that want more out of state players are going to get their wish because there is only 4 Kentucky players on the incoming Freshmen roster
Other than the Kentucky players listed there is only three more Kentucky SS players on the roster. They are TE Aumiller,WR, Boyd, LB/S Forrest. That is 10 player number one at their position out of 13 players.
There is four Kentucky kids on the incoming Freshman Roster. QB Patrick Towles, DT Thomas Chapman, DT Pat Gaffree, and Athlete Josh Harris.
This post was edited by C1180 21 months ago
How you can arrive at this conclusion from the previous conversations is simply amazing.
I don't know that anyone has said they 'want' more out of state guys. The simple fact is that the state of Kentucky produces very small numbers of talent and that talent pales in comparison to those southern states due to sheer numbers, competition and demographics. Therefore we 'have to' recruit in the southern states if we wish to compete in the SEC. It's really very simple.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by IamRV 21 months ago
Post of the thread. Sums things up quite well.
Want to know how I made that conclusion. Direct Quote from your post "I'll take 3 star Georgia/Florida kids over 3 star Kentucky kids every day of the week and twice on Sunday and the staff seems to think so too."
I am not sure what the staff thinks but it is a fact that they made 10 Kentucky kids number one at their position after spring practice. This might not hold during fall practice but it is to date a fact. Then again who knows maybe it will be eleven after fall practice. Towles might come out of fall practice number one at QB. I also see Chapman as the back up at one of the DT spots. That would put half of the incoming Kentucky kids in the two deep. It is true that UK doesnt get a lot of in state kids but it seems the ones they do get are doing well.
Per update on Rivals, Timmons quoted as saying that Arkansas "is in the lead". Sounds like Joker has a little ground to make up if UK is going to sign Timmons. Let's hope the 'Cats can show Timmons enough to sway him.
Timmons and Thomas on the field at the same time gives us to huge playmakers. We need to land this kid or someone like him for the slot WR position.
I wonder if the Thomas commitment will have any effect on Timmons. The two players are somewhat similar, although Timmons may have an edge in straight-line speed, while Thomas has the advantage of playing against better HS competition and appears to be more quick than fast.
Perhaps one is being sold on playing WR and the other RB? Timmons may have a higher ceiling at WR due to his size and speed, and Thomas may be coming as a RB initially.
After our recent RB classes, with Clemons, Taylor, and Mobley, it appeared UK was going towards more of a power running game. With the addition of Thomas, I wonder if that is a signal we are headed back towards more of a spread zone running attack?
Alternatively, we could be looking at playing more 4-wide sets with a single back, meaning Clemons, Taylor, or Mobley will be able to use size advantages to help protect in the pass game while still being able to carry between the tackles.
How far off would it be if you compared Thomas and Timmons to Florida's combo of rainey and demos?
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