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Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not that simple. ALL coaches, fans and programs want to recruit better players EVERY year.... no matter what their record is (even Saban). Your answer is too obvious... and therefore, lame.
What you fail to acknowledge is... we ARE recruiting better players. The only difference in us fans is... some expect to see the Green Bay Packers perform in game one, while some of us are more patient and realistic enough to know these kids need time to develop.
Sometimes, when you ask for too much too fast... you get very little (if anything at all). It's okay to expect more... we all do. However, you must have "realistic" expectations... like crawling, before walking.
Joker deserves a chance to show us what he can do with his recruits.... and 2013 appears to be a strong class. "Better" anyway... and that was your answer to our woes, so why not show some patience and see what they can do.
Thank you ... that's a good example of a "legit" answer.
+1 to both Shepp and Wildcatbelle
BS! UK facilities aren't bad! That's the worse excuse ever! How many recruits in articles on this board talk about how nice UK's facilities are? Several. It's about on field performance plain and simple. Can Joker get it done? I believe he can if given time. He's made mistakes like all of us do, I just hope he is afforded the time to correct them. Facilities have squat to do with it!
Why should UK's fans be more patient than UL's fans?
Strong and Joker have been headcoaches at their respective schools for the same ammount of time. Each has been largely responsible for their 2010, 2011, and 2012 classes.
Each has had the ability to hand select their staff from assistants to S&C to administrative.
With such similar circumstances, one would expect Joker to have his program neck and neck with UL in a WORST CASE SCENARIO.
Why would I say worst case scenario?
UK has the luxary of recruiting as an SEC program with some of the best facilities around (according to our "insiders" on this board). UL is weighed down be the fact that the BCS is dead, the BIg East is dead, and the hopes of making it to a major conference are looking slimmer and slimmer. They play in a conference that gets slammed by the media on TV every single Saturday of College Football Season. Nothing short of a laughing stock. UK has now lost it's last 3 games in a row against that "laughing stock" conference.
Simply put, UK fans should be beyond pissed off at the state of affairs of UK football compared to their in-state little brother. You should be FURIOUS!
"Its time for UK fans to start raising their expectations"
#1, our head coach needs to not be so conservative, and please, don’t use the onsides kick after most hope was lost to say he’s not. It's pretty simple. We heard all off season that we didn't have the playmakers neccessary to win last year, but we were bringing in new guys that could fill those rolls. Well guess what, the only new guy we even played was Collins, so what did we expect? We didn't have any playmakers last year, and we kept the new one's on the bench this year. Great idea!
Maybe we could have gotten an advantage by letting a guy like Sweat take over return duties the whole game. The one time they did, he looked pretty f'n good. Why wait till the end of the game? Because Joker is conservative and afraid to put pressure on young guys.
Maybe, we could have actually tried to control the game with the run by playing our bigger bruising backs instead of two undersized guys who are prone to fumble and injury? Argue about yards per carry all you like, but UL controlled the run game like an SEC team does. We could not even come close with Williams and Sanders. Either Joker’s football philosophy is Waaay off, or yet again, he was afraid to trust his young guys with the football in their hands.
Oh yeah, and how about throwing some passes downfield so that we can actually spread UL’s defense out a little? What a novel idea! Nah, let’s just throw five yard slants and run the ball up the gut with undersized backs every time. That’ll get em’! Well guess what, it hasn’t worked the last 2 years, and it sure ain’t gonna work now!
I’m not even gonna try to dissect the debacle that was our defense right now. It was just plain embarrassing! I felt like the ghost of Steve Brown must have been present though on that first 3rd down UL converted when Neloms didn’t even bother to look back for the ball. The more things change, the more things stay the same huh?
When it comes down to it though OP, I’m not getting payed millions of dollars to win football games. Joker is, and as the HC of an SEC program, he just got blown out by a big East team! Blown out so badly in fact, that they pulled their freakin starting QB in the 3RD quarter!!! UK might have some roadblocks, but football is not brain surgery. Control the run game with your backs, take shots downfield when they are open, and play sound fundamental defense, and you will win a lot of football games. We did none of those things!
You're not bursting my bubble. The answer is that simple. If being right makes it "lame" so be it. The question was silly. And I didn't "fail to acknowledge" the Cats are recruiting better players. That is some messed up logic btw. A team that just two years ago was coming off of 5 straight bowl games, then had a losing record last year, and looks to be headed that way this year has recruited better players? If you're talking about the FR and SOPH classes, you may be right, you may not be. I don't think anyone can objectively comment on the talent level of the younger guys until they do something. After one game, I assume you will concede the young guys that played yesterday on the defense have a lot of room for improvement. Also, I'm not asking to see an NFL defense in game one, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to see better from an SEC team than we saw yesterday. Watching UL amass a staggering amount of yards (particularly on the ground) I could not help thinking about what guys like Marcus Lattimore have the potential to do against this D. As I said earlier, though, I'm not going to worry about the rest of the season. There is enough to worry about with a very game Kent State team that I think can come in to CWS and win.
They're not awful, but they're certainly not the best either. They're better then a lot of non-SEC schools but unfortunately in order to compete in the SEC you have to compete with the SEC for recruits. And we're still on the lower end of that arms race. Granted Oregon has the biggest booster of them all in Nike, but part of their pitch has been the quality of facilities that you see there that's unlike anything else. Now I'm not saying Kentucky should do this, because I don't think the money is there to do it. But it's an example of a non-traditional program finding something that sets them apart from everyone else.
You have to find a niche that makes you unique in comparison to other programs. And stick with it. Ask yourself what is Kentucky known for that makes them unique in comparison to other SEC programs? What can we give to a recruit that no one else can? And if we don't have that answer what can we do to come up with one?
1. Let Joker do the coaching. He is the professional. The program is going to thrive or fail on his decisions, not ours. Our decision is whether to buy tickets or spend money on websites like this one to discuss football. The easy answer is to play the new kids who are supposed to be considerably better like Sweat, Mobley and Collins more. Tell Minter to toughen up the defense and teach it so that guys know where to line up with their eyes to the front. You know that sort of thing.
2. Facilities are a straw dog in my opinion. Ours aren't that bad and a lot of good football programs had worse. Miami, Pitt, UC, UL, and others. You win first then get better facilities. We are not in a state bonding contest. This is about football.
3. Recruiting is a real issue. Recruits come to play for coaches not stadiums. They don't generally like to commit to guys who are rumored to be close to leaving a school. You can always get players and guys who are big these days. The key is who else wants them. UK is just not going to move ahead by building a team of "hidden gems" who are flying under the radar. Occasionally that works but not very often. What UK needs is players who the opposition want as well.
4. If Joker fails to satisfy his bosses. He needs to go after this season. If that happens Barnhart needs a committee like the one that found and negotiated with Calapari to address this issue and he should be prepared to give up something worthwhile if UK really wants a program. Coaches want money and control of the program. If this is not on the table we will likely find some retread or a desperate coach who doesn't demand the contract which will allow success. This would be a chance to fix UKFB by fixing the support structure that has been inadequate for decades. That is if UK wants it fixed.
All I can say to that is... life isn't fair (and neither is college football).
You gotta play the hand you're dealt... or fold.
UK's facilities are has good as half of the SEC. It has nothing to do with that. It's about attitude, believe, players, coaches, etc.....We have got to get over the fact that people think we are a BB school only! UK is not! Fans have shown that for years! I strongly believe while you and I are on here posting right now Joker is taking his defensive coaches to task! He wants UK to win more than any of us period. You'll see wholesale changes in scheme, players, and maybe even staff responsibilities. Joker loves UK and bleeds blue and he'll put his fingerprint on the defense now just like he did on the offense. JMHO.
I never said they were bad... I said "facilities" is a good example of a "legit" answer ("legit" doesn't mean "good" answer either). However, it's better than the typical "fire Joker" bitch and moan type answers.
This post was edited by JawJacker 19 months ago
The only the legit answer in my mind is just winning. I honestly believe Joker understands this. It will be interesting to see what he says tonight? I would bet there were several heated conversations today between the staff and even players and there should have been. JMHO.
You just explained the coaching!!! Unless they start giving teams 3 wins to start the season, upgrading the facilities won't help one bit.
Joker certainly wasn't dealt any worse of a hand than Strong 3 years ago. Now one coach has turned his hand into a royal flush and the other on on the brink of going "bust".
As fans, we have no other way to judge Joker and Strong than what each have done with their programs in the same exact ammount of time on the job.
Quite simply, UK fans should demand more and stop accepting the "life isnt' fair" line when trying to explain why our program has taken such a fall in such a short period of time.
Well said. It will fall on deaf ears, but well said sir.
Since 1960, Joker has won more games in his first two years than any other coach at UK. Mumme tied him with wins and having one bowl appearance, but he might have had a better "hand" with a fella named Tim Couch. I guess we have come a long way if that is the brink of going bust?
John L. Smith and Bobby Petrino had better records their first two years at UL than Charlie Strong. I guess that qualifies as a royal flush?
Yes, they just smashed us in the first game of the season between two young teams, and may be better than us this season. But, with only one game played in season 3, I think you are stretching it a bit regarding the coaching comparison. But, I often see you do the same thing with regards to Franklin, so maybe you switched to Strong since Vandy lost, lol..jk.. Or you just truly do not llike Joker, or simply think he could never turn UK around, which is completely fair.
Not a fair comparison IMO. UK was on the up swing when Joker took over. Not "over the hump" but without a doubt the culture was changing.
What arguement would you make as to the improvement you have seen over the last 3 years under Coach Phillips? And then ask yourself the same question with Coach Strong at Louisville in those same 3 years.
Be honest with yourself.
This post was edited by Big Sarge 19 months ago
I think we have improved recruiting, and i think it is a fair comparison based on the argument I was responding to in the post.
With all due respect, this is a UK problem... Why should we always look at our program thru the prism of UofLs trajectory? In all honesty, we as UK fans need to base expectations of SEC winning league championships.
With that said, our problem is much, much more bleak than keeping pace with the dirty birds. Did anyone watch the UT game? They look 1000x better than UofL. We are going to get demolished this year and the ONLY way to keep recruiting from bottoming out is to hire a PRIMO coach.
Unfortunately, JJ - the biggest variable to changing the fortunes and culture of a football program (more than any sport) is by implementing the correct head coach. (see Franklin, Spurrier, Petrino for SEC examples over the past 10 years) For UK, it's even deeper because the administration doesn't EXPECT to compete for SEC titles; so why pay for huge stadium expansions, super-lux boxes, real fan day/blue-white experience, best recruiting rooms, and most importantly -BEST coaches?
Joker is in year 3 of a 5 year deal. No way do they bring him back next year as a lame duck. If they do, color me surprised. We will be underdogs in every conference game.
Not that it would be popular, but Petrino would be a hire that would make the most sense. He built 2 national powers; one in our backyard and one in our conference. He wins ballgames. I bet he would be intrigued with working with Towles. But, once again, nobody in UKs decision-making kabal has a MACCHIAVELLIAN bone in their cartilage spines.
Watching the 'product' yesterday as UofL called off the dogs 4 minutes into the second half made me realize that this problem has no real answer, but coaching change. Who that selected coach shall be will reflect the ideology of the fix... If Petrino-type guy IS HIRED we have a shot at killing the aw-shucks-loser mentality that plagues the admin., staff, players and Cheetos stained fans.
I have a feeling we'll get a d coordinator from Clemson or some useless piece of crap that will be quicksanded into the graveyard of former UK coaches.
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