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I don't know why this is still a point of contention for people that don't want Petrino. If you think he is morally un-hireable, that's fine. But him leaving for a better job is a simple contractual matter. All he needs to do is sign the same agreement he signed at Arkansas and that knocks out him leaving for any school that can't afford an $8 million buyout and any SEC school (he signed a non-compete clause for the entire SEC). That is actually a worst case scenario. Certainly any job he gets now will have even more strict obligations.
This post was edited by TransyCat09 17 months ago
Alright I gotta start with Fulmer and Holtz. Holtz is a better coach but fulmer is no slacker. Both averaged 9 wins a season at their respective places, both won a national title. Sorry but thsts pretty similiar. Niw the differance would be in 6 more year Phil had two losing seasons going 5-6 and 5-7. Holtz worst record was 6-5-1.
While Kingsbury has not had head coacing experince, he is the hot offensice cord similiar to Nutt.
Now you compared us to Ark and Uscjr. What did both of those teams do. They hired Nutt and Holtz when they were on the down tick, similiar to us. Once those guys got them on the uptick they hired the big name coach.
Even Louisville had John L. Get the from a diwn tick to an uptick before hiring Petrino.
So really right now we would be looking for our guy to get us the uptick before getting the big dawg.
Looking at Petrino he has never taken over a team that was the downtick before. At Louisville they went 11-2 and 7-5 before he took over. Arkansas went 10-4 and 8-4 before he took over. We are staring 1-10 straight in the face, a completely differant beast
Once again. Holtz walked away from a lifetime contract and Fulmer was fired. Their records at the mid-point in their career mean nothing as it relates to that point.
Nutt was not a hot OC. He was a head coach at two places. That comparison doesn't even hold the most basic similarity.
And I don't buy into the fact that you have to hire in steps. That is, we don't need a Phil Fulmer type before we get a big coach. We can just skip that step and get a big coach right now. USCjr did that both times. They hired a huge name in Holtz and then another huge name with Spurrier. They didn't hire a guy to warm the seat for a big name, they hired huge names with proven track records.
Are you speaking in reference as to why holtz left notre dame? If so, Lou holtz was absolutely forced out. His assistants actually forced somewhat of a coup apreading rumors that he had gone crazy.
Frankly I wouldn't mind having a coach that could actually leave for better opportunities for once. That actually sounds good to me.
No Notre Dame fan says that. His assistants wanted him out because one of them got his job would be my guess.
There are 3 reasons thrown out there by Notre Dame fans and not a single one mentions him being forced out based on performance:
- He was getting close to Rockney's record
- He wanted to get recruits like Randy Moss in and the admin wanted to raise academic standards
- There were looming NCAA violations (on which he was cleared).
There is also the fact that his wife had cancer.
I don't know how you are getting that Holtz was forced out in the same way Fulmer was. One was based on one of the reasons listed above and the other was because he was losing his coaching acumen in a changing game.
He was forced out for the reasons you listed along with a perception that the game had passed him by. Was he "fired"? No, but he did absolutely resign under pressure. Either way, while not identical, the fulmer situation is similar.
They did not resign under the same pressure. This is not even an issue. His winning or recruiting had not fallen off, unlike Fulmer. Resigning because the admin wants to go in a different direction is not an indictment against your coaching capability. Resigning because you are going to be fired from the school you have spent your entire life at because you can't win anymore is very much an indictment of your coaching capability.
Holtz - issues with the AD
Fulmer - couldn't coach at a high level anymore
While not quite as bad as fulmer holtz's main issues were w's and l's. his final 3 seasons at nd were 6-5-1, 9-3 and 8-3. That's pretty poor by nd standards.
Had he been winning big he wouldn't have been forced out. To argue otherwise is either ignoring reality or disingenuous.
Btw, fulmer's last 3 year record was 24-15. Holtz's? 23-11-1. Interesting huh? Pretty similar...
This post was edited by hoptownukfan 17 months ago
Not really. Holtz lost one game less per year in a season with one less game. Lou was not forced out because of wins and losses. I have been looking on fan boards about the topic and not one person has even mentioned this. Not that fans on a message board would know anything for a fact, but since it isn't even a speculation amongst ND fans that he was fired for W-Ls I will have to discount that
First off, Petrino wouldn't leave UK UNLESS he is winning games here. Schools aren't going to come after him if he's getting his ass handed to him while coaching UK.
Second, Arkansas' AD had enough sense to put a 15million dollar buyout in Petrino's contract to assure everyone that he wouldn't bolt. With neither UT or Auburn chasing Bobby, wouldn't Mitch have enough leverage to demand a similar clause in a contract for Petrino? Would sure seem like it
But hey, why take a chance on someone that might be so good that other teams come after him? LoL Classic UK football mentality.
Fulmer was not forced out due to wins and loses either. In fact the year before he resigned he went 10-4 winning the SEC and the outbackback bowl, receiving a contract extension. Does not sound like someine who had forgotten how to coach.
Lou Holtz did not leave ND for Uscjr. He was out of coaching for 2 years before taking the job. If he was such a great coach at the time why did no one else hire him. When Lou took the job it was believed he did so that after he got the program his son would take over as coach.
Uscjr didn't make some great hire with Lou, they got a coach coming out of retirement trying to help his son and try to turn a program around.
As for putting a buyot in Petrino contract maybe thats why he has not been hired yet. Maybe we said will hire you but we want a 15 million buyout and be able to fire you with no pay for any instance of lying. Petrion might responded with you need me more than I need you, so no buyots.
Holtz was absolutely forced out by ND because they believed the game had passed him by. They did not believe he could coach or recruit to the levek necessary for ND to continue competing for NCs. This has come from Holtz's own mouth to me. Holtz would have retired fot ever from coaching but he was given the opportunity to prove ND wrong. His wife is the #1 driving force in him coaching at USCjr.
Ive known Lou for many years. My oldest and best friend is lou's first cousin, ive been on the sidlines on many games. Lou will forever love ND, buy he was absolutely forced out.
Not really? LOL. I remember as a kid. Next to UK football I loved Notre Dame football nearly as much. I was devestated. Holtz was absolutely forced out because they thought he couldn't win "big" anymore.
The fulmer situation is VERY similar. Both guys who had won big, but had fallen on tough times. Fan support was suffering a bit and folks thought they needed to make a quick change before thigns got "really" bad. Turns out they dug a deeper hole at both placeds.
I worked in Knoxville at the time the Fulmer drama was going on. He was definitely forced out by the admin. The fan base thought three game has passed him by. At least the ones i spoke with did.
I hated it when Holtz got forced away because ND I'd like the Yankees and Cowboys, their respective sports are better when they are relevant. I thought that ND would spiral down the drain.
This would be a homerun? I'd say more like a fluke single. An improvement over Joker but that's not saying much.
Butch Jones a fluke single? Compare him to the last 6 hires in the sec. It'd be the best hire of any of the programs.
Who are they?
Ole miss - Hired the arky state head coach who was at LAMBUTH the previous year.
Vandy - Franklin - Fired HCIW at Maryland
Auburn - Losing coach from Iowa state
Tennessee - Losing coach from LA tech
Miss State - Hot cooridinator
Florida - Hot assistant from Texas.
Kevin Sumlin - Hot WAC coach
According to most on here all of these would be flops because they aren't "huge" names. Put butch Jones' resume up against those. It's as good or better. Hot coordinator at BCS program who made it to bcs bowl. Has taken over reins and continued success at a VERY VERY VERY VERY tough place to win at.
Auburn bcs coach
Vandy fired bcs coach
Sumlin cusa not wac
Tennessee hiring Dooley didn't make since to me with their history. I think they just gambled on the Dooley name and hoped to hit a home run.
This post was edited by James Mahoney 17 months ago
Vandy is a fired BCS coordinator/hciw. Sorry about that on Sumlin. Sometimes i forget that CUSA even exists anymore... And yea. I realize Chizik is from a BCS conference. That's why I said Iowa state. he was a big time LOSER at iowa state though.
CUSA has been a but of joke for awhile now.
Chizik was 5-19 at Iowa State, 2-14 in the Big 12. Was actually worse his second year, record-wise, than his first too (2-10, 0-8)
Didn't understand that hire either.
The next great coach in America is out there and would love an opportunity to coach at UK. The trick is figuring out who he is
Jones very well might be that guy, or maybe he's not. That's about as exact as NCAA football coaching gets.
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