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An interesting perspective was brought up this morning. Listening to Bill King this morning. He was talking to a recruiting guru and mentioned about the BigTEN. The guru mentioned the following things:
-Cited that Ohio is really getting pounded by everyone these days. Noted that UK and Tennessee (with Butch's connections) is making a "killing" in Ohio currently.
-What was interesting was who he said that UK's and UT's recruiting efforts are harming. There has been a lot of talk lately about Ohio St being "threatened by UK's efforts." The guru mentioned that programs like OSU and Michigan are going to get their recruits.......you may cherry pick a player here or there, but they're gonna get almost anyone they want from Ohio. It's programs like Indiana, Illinois, MSU, and PSU that are getting the hurt. UK and UT are coming in and stealing the mid-to-high grade talent out of Ohio that other programs used to fight over.
-And with the BigTEN as a whole expected to have another down yr of football, the recruits are ripe for the picking for UK.
Sounds pretty good to me. Go get'em Stoops.
Ohio State and Michigan are always going to get theirs in Ohio but teams like Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin and others can't be happy about what UK and Tennessee are doing up there.
Think Michigan State may be the most hurt by it, as evidenced by D'Antoni's recent public comments.
I think it indirectly hurts Michigan and Ohio State because it hurts the conference. Sooner or later Kentucky or Tennessee will get someone OSU and/or Michigan really wants.
Obviously I meant Mark Dantonio
Even if UK or UT pick one off that was bound for OSU and Michigan, they'd go out and find another 4-5 star player to fill the space. Top 10 programs like OSU/Michigan (heck they're top 5 programs) will always be able to land top players.....so UK and UT probably will never truly hurt them directly. You were right about the indirectly hurting them through the conference though. In the end it's probably not that much of an impact, but it is likely a negative one.
Michigan has not finished in the top 5 in a long time they are a good program right now but I wouldn't say top 5. And Uk could very well start competing for the players they want with success in conference.
No program has ever won more games than Michigan. They are to football as UK is to basketball. As far as number of games won they are ahead of everyone. Historically they are a top 5 brand......easily. There are very few programs that are worldwide brands. Notre Dame, OSU, USC, Bama, etc. Michigan is such a brand. THEY ARE HUGE. You are right that they haven't done much lately, but that doesn't stop programs like these. Whenever they want a top 5-10 recruiting class they can get it at will. What you are suggesting is like saying that Ole Miss can rise up and steal a bunch of 5* recruits from UK basketball every yr. Ole Miss can rise up and get one every once in a while, but there is a reason why the historical top programs remain as such.
Comparing football recruiting to basketball is like comparing Oranges to Lemons yeah Michigan obviously has good tradition but wait and see if we start knocking off sec teams the type of kids we get UK has a brand it may be mostly Basketball under Joker but the UK brand is out there and is about to explode for football. Ole miss is not a good comparison because they have nothing to sale in basketball. The sec is a weak conference they have zero tradition and they don't put players in the league. It is a whole lot easier to recruit at a high level in football than in basketball.
Take Vandy and Ole miss for example they have gone from doormats to recruiting at a national level you just don't see that in basketball.
I disagree that it's easier to recruit at a high level in football. In basketball you can land two top 50 recruits in one year and have a solid core for four years. In you land four or five more top 100 kids you could have a solid top 6-7. In football you need a boatload of talented kids to compete.
There was a time when people thought that way about TN and assumed they would be a perennial top 5-10 program... OOPS!
Baylor might disagree there.
I think it's incorrect to label any US university a worldwide brand, growing up in the UK I couldn't have named one outside of the more prestigious educational ones, i.e Harvard, Yale etc as I would expect Americans to know Oxford and Cambridge (is that a correct assumption?)
I did know some of the professional sports teams that were big then, the Raiders, the Bears, the Niners, the Bulls (Jordan), Yankees but that would have been about it.
You would be surprised at how little college sports permeate outside of the US borders; I saw barely anything from a college team growing up, maybe the odd thing someone brought back from a holiday to the States with them but that had a 95% chance to be from a pro team and not college.
Ironically the place I've seen the most college merch is out here in Vietnam because the factories here make it so the seconds get sold on the cheap in the markets here. One of my students has a Louisville button down shirt that he wears to class all the time *sigh* :P
Incase you're wondering now in the UK the NFL's footprint is much more widespread with the London games, it has quite a large following now. Most people would have a good chance of knowing LeBron and the Heat, maybe the Knicks.
Just thought this might provide some insight!
Queen. It was a hyperbole used to prove a point that there are few programs bigger than Michigan.
Quagmire. The notion that UK is going to rise up, start getting top 5 recruiting classes, and push teams like Michigan down in the recruiting rankings b/c of all the recruits they steal from them is very far fetched.
Right now UK is killing it on the recruiting trail and may end up ranked around 15th which would put them somewhere in the upper middle of the SEC. One recruiting class is helpful but like the other poster said in football you need more than one. UK is currently on a fabulous upswing right now but let's let's be realistic.
It takes winning for decades to be considered a top 10-20 program. And when I mean winning, I mean winning big. Miami for example wasnt much more than a .500 program historically. It took a 20 yr span of winning double digits a yr and winning championships to turn the mindset into a big time program. UK hasn't even been a .500 program and they play in a much tougher conference.
UK can get better and compete. They can change their program to a respectable level but they won't be knocking off the big boys ( Michigan, OSU, Bama, Texas, USC) anytime soon.
UK still has a ways to go before we start competing with OSU for talent. Its going to take winning some games. I think this coaching staff has completely maximized what they can do thought without coaching a game. Let em get some wins under their belt and we'll see what happens.
This post was edited by tWhit 9 months ago
There's another aspect to this as well.
Meyer's recruiting philosophy is much different than Tressel's. Tress focused in-state first much more. A legit 3 star from Ohio that wanted to be a Buckeye was going to get an offer from Tressel.
That is no longer the case. Meyer wants elite players regardless of where they're from. The 3 star in-state kid is no longer an auto offer.
This should actually make it easier for programs like MSU, Illiniois, etc to come in and get those kids. As has been pointed out, UK and UT have been the programs to come in and fill that void.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by devidee 9 months ago
I never said anything about Michigan getting pushed down. And we have had two good classes not one. My point is UK is and will be a major player for the top talent in the state of Ohio for years to come. You don't have to be great for 15 20 years to be considered an upper echelon program Oregon is considered one and they have not been winning that long and they do not have near the history of a Michigan. I never said stealing recruits from Oh St I was talking about Michigan to say they are what they once were is just not true. I see UK as a sleeping Giant will it take time to get to a top 15 level probably but the way this staff is recruiting put some wins behind them and the skies the limit. The only thing hurting are efforts with some of the upper echelon kids is lack of wins under Joker. the staff wins 6 or 7 games this year just wait and see what the next class looks like. You just said it yourself we will finish around 15 in recruiting rankings that's coming off of a 2 10 season in which we lost to WKU. But I see UK as a brand about to explode not the past. Its a new ERA of UK football.
UK is getting 4 stars from OH Snodgrass Horton West all 4 star players.
UK is doing well in OH no doubt about it but it is all about winning big games. Just because UK is getting good kids from OH does not mean they are the best kids Nationally. UK is not in the B1G and doesn't have to play illinois, indy, Mich st nor Penn St. UK has to deal with Bama, LSU, FL, Texas a&m and the SEC. The SEC is getting the best kids in the Nation so when UK starts out recruiting SEC teams and not a weak B1G, then that is something that will result in BCS appearances and not moral recruiting victories.
What a stupid mischaracterization of the excitement surrounding recruiting at UK. Improving recruiting isn't a moral recruiting victory, it is a tangible increase in the available talent level that will see the football field.
It's so stupid that long-suffering UK football fans aren't allowed to enjoy or be excited about a new coaching staff that has done some good things without someone falsely ascribing some ignorant label.
I guess if UK is more competitive next season, even without a good win-loss record, UK fans aren't allowed to enjoy the improvement.
-We have 1 "decent" class ranked 39th barely on campus and 1 that looks good on paper, but we haven't signed yet.
-UK is looking to be a player in Ohio, but not a major one. Michigan, ND, OSU are going to have their picks of the elite players and then UK steps in. UK will get an elite player or two per yr......even if UM or OSU want them, but 8 out of 10 times the big boys will win out. It all means great things for UK (and we all love that), but it doesn't mean that all of the sudden we are doing as well as UM or OSU in Ohio for recruiting. Now looking at the other teams in the area. PSU, Indiana, WVU, MSU, Illinois, etc. UK will be more than able to hold their own in recruiting Ohio against this level.
-Many programs rise and fall. The big boys remain up there. Michigan "can" have a decade of poor football, make a change in coaching, and be in the national title hunt in 2-3 yrs. Bama proved this. (understood they have Saban, but Bama's reputation helped out a ton) There is a reason why coaches line up and aspire to coach at places like ND, USC, and UM. They are on top of the pile even in down periods.
Oregon is not considered a historical top echelon program ....they are tied for 64th among number of wins. They are a hot team right now b/c of what they have accomplished over the last 20 yrs. (Shoutout to Rich Brooks) Right now they are ranked in the top 25 every yr, but it doesn't make them a top echelon program. If you take a poll who has the premier program in the PAC, you'll get the answer of USC 100 out of 100 times.....even though Oregon has outshined them recently. Oregon is trending towards being an upper program, but still note that it's taken them 20 yrs to get to where they are now.
-I agree that UK is a sleeping giant program. And I feel too that they can be a team that is top 25 ranked yr in and yr out. But also note this. Let's say UK gets 4 classes in a row that are ranked at about 15th.......that puts our roster about on par with South Carolina. The Cocks have a HOF coach and have won 11 games each of the last 2 yrs. That's awesome and I can't wait for UK to get there........and I would love for Stoops to be our Bobby Bowden. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see Stoops absolutely tear it up for 20+ yrs at UK. It's not likely. As a matter of fact we'd probably have more luck winning the lottery, but it's a dream we all share.
Don't get mad at my post... UK has a lot to be happy abt, but lets shoot for championships like the basketball team!! To be a champion, the war is not with the B1G, it is with the SEC!!! out recruiting second tier B1G teams doesn't mean squat ... Do u think coach Cal is happy about out recruiting Purdue in basketball??? Hell no.. He wants to out recruit everybody in the country.
He wants to out recruit everyone in the country b/c he can with the power of the UK basketball brand behind him. When he was at UMass and Memphis he recruited his fair share of 3* players......heck a decent portion of his players at Memphis were 2* or not even rated. He did the best he could with the resources at his disposal. I'm sure that if Stoops could bring in an entire class of 4* and 5* talent he would, but it's not possible right now.
In fact, most recruiting analysts say that what Stoops is doing right now is nothing short of miraculous. There has been nothing to indicate that the staff is settling.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Stoops was hired because he had a comprehensive plan that he is going to stick to and I am pretty sure it wasn't "Get hired, recruit 5 stars, win championships." To go from a 2-10 perennial bottom-feeder in the SEC to having a chance at a top 10 recruiting class the following year is astounding despite your claims.
Something else: if we have a top 10 class (very possible), we will be out-recruiting a good number of SEC teams who finished much better than we did last year.
I understand what you are saying Coach Stoops has provided a sense of hope and I am happy for the fan base because it is long over due, but my post was in response to the notion that UK is out recruiting the mid-level schools in the B1G.
I feel that UK can and should be recruiting the way that they are now, and even better! maybe my expectations don't reflect the majority of the fan base because of the way the football program has performed in recent history, but I just don't believe that recruiting Ohio better than Illinois, Indy, Mich St and Penn St is cause for a celebration, when the war is with the SEC which is wayyyy stronger than the B1G.
The point that I am trying to make is that when you expect greatness (like the basketball team), you will not settle for anything less than greatness!! ..btw, this was not meant to piss in anyone's cheerios but to have a non-bias football conversation. Good luck with your upcoming season UK fans!
The players we are picking up are the cream of the crop that schools like Illinois, Indiana, Mich St. and Penn St. were getting. We're now taking their best players away from them and pairing them with big time kids from the South as well as big time kids from the state of Ky. Its a recipe for success in any conference. If you don't think its cause for celebration coming off a 2-10 season then you are just looking for a reason to be a debbie downer. Lets also not forget that Coach Stoops has to start somewhere. And this start has been incredible. Already outrecruiting established programs like Mich. St., and Nebraska before he's even coached a game. I mean come on. We only go up from here. Let this talent come in 2014 and beyond and win some games then watch us take it up a notch.
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