The House of Blue

You know, I've gone from a Kobe later (when I was younger) to a Kobe appreciater for what he's become historically in the NBA. I think he's every by as good as MJ was but just falls short of MJ's will to win which separates him from every other great imo.

However Kobe has began the dreaded downside of his career. Obviously he has a few more years of high level ball left but his numbers don't lie.

In the OKC series, in the combined final 4 minutes of every game Kobe was a combined 3-21 (Lebron would have got killed for those stats) and he also a lower FG% than LBJ (he also shot a lower 3pt% for those who say he's a better shooter and all LBJ's shots are dunks n layups ) which was quite surprising. Now before I get ripped (I know the site is predominately anti LBJ) I do think James is the best player in the league just above KD, but id still take Kobe in a game 7, or in a final shot situation over everyone else in the game (KD is awful close) as he still has that killer instinct as well as one of the best closers in the game.

My point being, as good as Kobe is/has been, we will start to see Kobe getting shut down more as his career winds down. All that said, I still think Kobe could easily win one more ring before he bows out.

Had it not been for MJ, we may be calling Kobe the G.O.A.T.

Just tryin to get some opinions and u seem like u kno what ur talkin bout...y is Kobe considered so good over other greats besides Jordan???...like magic Johnson, bill Russell, Jerry west, Larry bird, wilt chamberlain, olajuwan, Kareem, and so many more...all these guys dominated and all have rings...Magic has 4 or 5 and Russell has 11....what is that makes Kobe so much better then them...I don't think Kobe has done so much to be automatically the second best behind Jordan...I personally think Lebron win 4 champs and 6-7 mvps be4 it's all said and done and I think he will end as the best of all time

Negative. Definitely not Shaq. Guy couldn't have the ball in his hands at the end of games due to his piss poor free throw %. Sme of the other players you named played in times where there was much more separation in terms of talent and athletic ability, and it's a whole different world today. If you completely ignore that huge issue, then yea you could make a case for all those people.

Definitely not Shaq? REALLY?

SMH... If Shaq and other superstar came into the same good situation as Kobe pretty sure they all would have more championship..

I heard it on the radio this morning. He was talking about shutting Kobe down in a completely playful manner.

At first he said he was looking forward to going against his teammates from UK.

You can listen to him say it in the link I posted above for those that missed it.

Yea really. What makes a player great is dominance as well as killer instinct and ability to CLOSE A GAME OUT. Sorry, Shaq falls well short in that area, and even he admits that. He fits very high on best big men of all time. Now, Magic definitely has a case, but comparing some of those real old timers to today's superstars is difficult because of how far the game (and players) has evolved since that time.

As far as the rest of your post...I don't know how to respond because it doesn't really make sense. What same good situation??? Shaq was in the SAME damn situation Kobe was in, and always had that other superstar to close games for him (even with Heat). Magic was in a pretty good situation as well, so either your not articulating what you mean to say well, or you don't know what your talking about. Magic has a case, and personally I have him and Kobe on the same tier, right underneath MJ. I think Durant has a chance if he can start getting some championships. I also wonder how being in a relatively small market will affect his chances.

I've heard several analysts saying AD is the most transcendent talent enter the NBA since Tim Duncan lately. While that may be true I just hope he doesn't have too lofty of expectations placed on him. Just let the kid come out n play and grow into his potential. If that happens I see no scenero in which he stays in Nola.

Maybe Wall, AD, and MKG (or any group of the plethora of Cats invading the NBA) will pull a LBJ, D. Wade, and Bosh and form a Wildcat super trio in the league. Lol

LOL< SAME SITUATION> hahahahahah

you obviously are clueless.

Shaq started in Orlando with best player around him was Penny Hardaway. ROFLMAO. same situation? Oh that wasn't even his first year, btw. Penny Hardaway at his best was hardly good. There is the reason why he was #1 pick. Went into a team with 23-59 record. Orlando also is a mediocre organization.

Kobe bryant (17) came into the league to Los Angeles Lakers. Combined with Shaq in his first year. Shaq averaged 30 points, 15 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2.5 blocks per game in the 3 Championship playoff season. This was their third season together. Young Kobe (20) get's to play with top player in the league while he is young. Also joins top 2 organization in the league. He also gets a lot of credit, but he was 2nd to Shaq on this team. (Btw...he finished these games...)

Let's start talking about some all time greats who had #1 player in the league waiting for him....oh wait...

Imagine if Lebron had...say Kobe Bryant at his prime waiting for him? or Shaq joining Michael Jordan? Or MJ joining Magic. or Dwight howard joining Lebron James. You get the point.

The season Kobe Bryant won the championship, he averaged 22.5 ppg, 28.5 pg, 25.2 ppg. All EXCELLENT. However, this shows you how LUCKY kobe bryant was. MJ scored 37.1, 35, 32.5 and 33.6 ppg without winning championship. MJ shot better FG %, had more assists, rebounds, in these seasons as well.

MJ's best season is 32.5 ppg(54%) (2nd best for Kobe...for MJ it's 5th best scoring season), 8 apg, 8 rpg. 2.9 spg. Completely destroys Kobe's best season. 35.4 ppg (45%), 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, and 1.8 spg. or you can take 30 ppg (45%), 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.2 spg. (Let's not compare career average, which MJ beats Kobe in every statistical category, basically)

First thing people need to do is...separate MJ and Kobe. They are not at the same level. Then realize that Kobe's career was very fortunate to be combined with a top player in the league when they joined the league.

In all fairness and honesty tho, I do admit, that early on on their 3 peat that was without question Shaq's team. But as time went on Kobe became more and more crucial to that team. Imo Shaq is the most dominant big I've ever seen, not as skilled as Hakeem but more dominant. Kobe is arguably the greatest Laker of al time...remember I said arguably, and the 2nd greatest SG ever behind MJ. Without Kobe noway the 3 peat and vice versa with Shaq. Imo they are one of the NBA's greatest dous especially now looking back on their career. Kobe with 5 rings and Shaq with 4, in which 3 of their combined 9 were won away from each other. Honestly id take Shaq n Kobe in a 2 on 2 game (prime versus prime) over maybe every other dou in NBA history.

First. I wasn't saying Kobe was the only star to have another star with him. I said Kobe was the only star in RECENT memory (except Tim Duncan) to have top 3 player in the league waiting for him when he came into the league. It's actually sad that they didn't win more titles. Both of their egos crashed what could have been greatest combo. So, MJ for example had Pippin and Rodman for example much earlier, don't you think he would have had more titles (Scary thought)?

Second. I will give you that Penny Hardaway was good. But like you said best YOUNG PGs. That's different than saying about Shaq, which is top 5 in the league. Also, if Shaq did win NT with orlando and did stay in Orlando instead of go to Lakers. Don't you think that Kobe would not have won those 3 peat. This was my point. Kobe was VERY fortunate that drafting high school students weren't really proven method yet. KG and Kobe broke that, and that's why more and more HS players started getting drafted right out of HS. (Actually Houston was the most fortunate in those years because MJ took off his 2 primary years of his basketball career at age of 29? Don't remember the exact age)

Third. This is why most star wins after 6-7 years into their career. This luck of draw is the reason why Kobe was the youngest star to win NT. (of course Robert Horry, one of the clutchest of clutch. Hated him...sooo freakishly clutch.)

To moss--LOL @ you. Never said Shaq was in mention of G.O.A.T. MJ for me, simply there is no debate. Our debate was whether kobe is number 2 or not. I said i can make some argument about shaq, but i never said that he is above kobe. I responded because you said "Definitely not Shaq". Also, this discussion started because i had a different opinion than Tommy who said "I think he's every by as good as MJ was but just falls short of MJ's will to win which separates him from every other great imo." Kobe is up there, definitely in the discussion but i think guys like Magic and Russell deserve a nod. Also, i believe Kobe and MJ there is a separation. Even if Kobe wins another championship, its probably because he is the second man on the team. Most likely player like Howard will be the number 1 player on the team.

Shaq imo wasn't a top 3 player when he went to la la.
There were several...SEVERAL players better than Shaq when he went to the Lakers. His time in LA is when he truly became the diesel. Its obvious that you don't have a strong grasp in the NBA during that time. When Shaq went to LA he was getting owned by Hakeem and D. Robinson. To even attempt to dismiss Kobe as one of the greatest to play imo makes you sound silly

And yes, Kobe would have won rings eventually without Shaq as he has proven already by winning two...I really have no idea how you can say he wouldst have when he has indeed done it already. Smdh...

To ignore Kobe career, which really took off AFTER Shaq (that was Shaq's team during the 3 peat) left (stats don't lie) is just obvious proof of your personal disdain for Kobe.

Kobe Bryant, love him or hate him is one of the all time greats and is the second best SG behind MJ in the NBA's history. Period. End of story. Just go back and look at some of his career stats (I posted them above). Like I said, they do not lie and clearly speak for themselves. Oh and btw, Kobe's career stats, highlights, and awards are better than Shaq's in nearly every single category except Shaq has 1 more all start appearance (which Kobe will pass) and one more scoring title, but is kinda cancelled out since Kobe is 5th all time in scoring and 3rd all time in postseason scoring. And that's coming from a Shaq fan who actually believes Shaq may very well be the best big ever due to the level of talent and depth of big during his prime. I believe Shaq and Hakeem are the two best big ever...yes...above Wilt and above Russell. Outside of each other, what other bigs did those two compete against? Hakeem and Shaq squared off every night against several HOFers and many of the games all time greatest centers.

Btw, Duncan...that dude had a tremendous amount of talent around him as well (again your showing your lack of knowledge of the NBA during that time. The spurs got the #1 pick due to Robinson getting hurt and infamously taking the season), including a future HOF PG in Tony Parker. Again, your argument is debunked.