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Doug Shows

  • Don't post much here but I know Doug shows dad played at Arkansas. Why would he even be aloud to officiate there since his dad probably made him a Hogs fan through and through. (Not to mention he is the worst ref in the history of college ball.)

    UK fan 4Life

  • UK fan 4Life said...

    Don't post much here but I know Doug shows dad played at Arkansas. Why would he even be aloud to officiate there since his dad probably made him a Hogs fan through and through. (Not to mention he is the worst ref in the history of college ball.)

    I guess he is the reason we lost yesterday and not because we were made to look like a bunch of bi___es? I'm not fond of him either but I can promise you he had nothing to do with our loss. Officials are never going to be perfect. But after watching some high school basketball this week, all I can say is that it will be hard for me to complain anymore. Good Lord it is awful in high school! Some of what I saw just left me dumbfounded.

    nawlinsbaby

  • The way Doug shows crews officiate games (allow them to become brawls) does not suit our personel well. To deny that is ignoring reality.

    hoptownukfan

  • hoptownukfan said...

    The way Doug shows crews officiate games (allow them to become brawls) does not suit our personel well. To deny that is ignoring reality.

    Actually his crews don't normally allow games to be played nearly that physical. I've never seen Shows let so much go on in a game he has done at Rupp. It's just part of the style of play. Arkansas and Louisville (and UK when Pitino was here) get away with more fouls, especially at home, because of their phyiscal play. You could call a foul almost every other time down the court if they wanted to. We as fans had no problem with that style of play when it was used to our advantage with Pitino. Lets not forget about that. We like it when it helps us but complain when someone else does it to us. That, for most people, is reality. I won't lump all UK fans in there, but definitely a good portion of them.

    nawlinsbaby

  • A lot of people want to turn it on Harrow, but honest to goodness, how many players in this country are allowed to be held pushed and slapped as much as he is? Also , the inside game now has to be fight. Remember when we had Big Cuz? He couldn't breathe without getting a foul called on him. They took his physicality out of the equation. Now, Harrow gets hammered every time he brings it up and its not fouling, which is bull$^!#. When contact impedes the player it should be a foul. If not then 6 foot tall 250 lb. point guards are needed to succeed in college basketball. And bigs are allowed to throw , push and hook the people inside. Imagine if Cousins could have got away with the crap that gets let go now. He would have scored 80 a game himself.

    Oldcarlcat

  • nawlinsbaby said...

    Actually his crews don't normally allow games to be played nearly that physical. I've never seen Shows let so much go on in a game he has done at Rupp. It's just part of the style of play. Arkansas and Louisville (and UK when Pitino was here) get away with more fouls, especially at home, because of their phyiscal play. You could call a foul almost every other time down the court if they wanted to. We as fans had no problem with that style of play when it was used to our advantage with Pitino. Lets not forget about that. We like it when it helps us but complain when someone else does it to us. That, for most people, is reality. I won't lump all UK fans in there, but definitely a good portion of them.

    Not true. Look at how valentine put that style of play to bed in the first 10' minutes of the mizzou game. Mizzou tried to play that way but he refs cleaned it up quick.

    Shows absolutely allows games to be brawls. He's proven it over and over
    When he has
    Called our games. Look at the results.

    hoptownukfan

  • Cousins brought a lot of it on himself. And if you haven't noticed, he continues to bring a lot more of it on himself. Cousins problem was and is himself and his hothead attitude. When you continuosly caught doing stupid things like hitting, kicking, and taking cheap shots at people, how do you think refs are going to call it?

    I for one actually think Harrow is one of the better players on the team. But they all have their moments of good and bad. It's just that we can't get them all doing good at the same time. It's normally only one or two of them while the others are having their lapses. Missouri was the best game we played all year, IMO. We haven't come close to duplicating that game the rest of the year with the exception of Duke, IMO.

    This post was edited by nawlinsbaby on 3/3/2013 at 4:32 PM

    nawlinsbaby

  • If there's a foul, you call it. If a team keeps fouling and fouling, you call it. A ref should not get "tired" of calling fouls or let things go just so the game doesn't slow down. Players usually adjust to the foul-calling and if they don't, then there will be a lot of players fouling out. Some people say that refs shouldn't "decide" the game but if a team's style is to foul a lot and make the refs have to call more fouls than they should, that's on the players and coaches.

    dustarm20

  • hoptownukfan said...

    Not true. Look at how valentine put that style of play to bed in the first 10' minutes of the mizzou game. Mizzou tried to play that way but he refs cleaned it up quick.

    Shows absolutely allows games to be brawls. He's proven it over and over When he has Called our games. Look at the results.

    You don't always get the benefit of the calls on the road like you do at home. Especially when playing in Rupp or any other big name schools gym like Duke or Carolina or Kansas. If Mizzou was at home it would have been a little more lenient, more than likely. But you never know how the game will be called for sure.

    As for Shows, I have seen him in person at Rupp numerous times over the past 6 seasons as a season ticket holder. He loves blowing his whistle and being the center of attention. I actually think he does a good job of trying to not let games get out of hand physically. But I don't want to argue about refs all night. They are all pretty good at what they do even though some seem to have agendas against people (Shows and Cal). But they all make mistakes also. Some of them bad mistakes. Lets remember though that we as spectators and fans have the advantage of replays on tv when watching at home and when in attendance at a game you also have the advantage of being elevated (most people) and having a better view of the whole court. These guys are running up and down the floor full of guys that are mostly bigger and taller than the refs themselves. They can't always be in the best positions to see everything that goes on.

    nawlinsbaby

  • nawlinsbaby said...

    You don't always get the benefit of the calls on the road like you do at home. Especially when playing in Rupp or any other big name schools gym like Duke or Carolina or Kansas. If Mizzou was at home it would have been a little more lenient, more than likely. But you never know how the game will be called for sure.

    As for Shows, I have seen him in person at Rupp numerous times over the past 6 seasons as a season ticket holder. He loves blowing his whistle and being the center of attention. I actually think he does a good job of trying to not let games get out of hand physically. But I don't want to argue about refs all night. They are all pretty good at what they do even though some seem to have agendas against people (Shows and Cal). But they all make mistakes also. Some of them bad mistakes. Lets remember though that we as spectators and fans have the advantage of replays on tv when watching at home and when in attendance at a game you also have the advantage of being elevated (most people) and having a better view of the whole court. These guys are running up and down the floor full of guys that are mostly bigger and taller than the refs themselves. They can't always be in the best positions to see everything that goes on.

    You lost me at "I actually think he does a good job" I too attend most all games at Rupp and from my seats I think he sucks game in and game out. I think he has something against Cal. Look at Tony Greene, when BCG was here Greene was AWFUL. Since BCG left Greene as much as it pains me to say it has been fair ref. An officials job is to call a game according to the rule book., when they chose not to its on them. Until there is accountability in officiating it will continue to get worse. Venue or style should not dictate how a game is officiated, the rule book should.

    cully26

  • I will keep it simple. He is a bad ref.

    1Dhenry

  • nawlinsbaby said...

    You don't always get the benefit of the calls on the road like you do at home. Especially when playing in Rupp or any other big name schools gym like Duke or Carolina or Kansas. If Mizzou was at home it would have been a little more lenient, more than likely. But you never know how the game will be called for sure.

    As for Shows, I have seen him in person at Rupp numerous times over the past 6 seasons as a season ticket holder. He loves blowing his whistle and being the center of attention. I actually think he does a good job of trying to not let games get out of hand physically. But I don't want to argue about refs all night. They are all pretty good at what they do even though some seem to have agendas against people (Shows and Cal). But they all make mistakes also. Some of them bad mistakes. Lets remember though that we as spectators and fans have the advantage of replays on tv when watching at home and when in attendance at a game you also have the advantage of being elevated (most people) and having a better view of the whole court. These guys are running up and down the floor full of guys that are mostly bigger and taller than the refs themselves. They can't always be in the best positions to see everything that goes on.

    You must be confusing shows with somebody else. Or you don't know anything about basketball. Or it's Opposite Day at your school. Only three things I can think of.

    hoptownukfan

  • nawlinsbaby said...

    You don't always get the benefit of the calls on the road like you do at home. Especially when playing in Rupp or any other big name schools gym like Duke or Carolina or Kansas. If Mizzou was at home it would have been a little more lenient, more than likely. But you never know how the game will be called for sure.

    As for Shows, I have seen him in person at Rupp numerous times over the past 6 seasons as a season ticket holder. He loves blowing his whistle and being the center of attention. I actually think he does a good job of trying to not let games get out of hand physically. But I don't want to argue about refs all night. They are all pretty good at what they do even though some seem to have agendas against people (Shows and Cal). But they all make mistakes also. Some of them bad mistakes. Lets remember though that we as spectators and fans have the advantage of replays on tv when watching at home and when in attendance at a game you also have the advantage of being elevated (most people) and having a better view of the whole court. These guys are running up and down the floor full of guys that are mostly bigger and taller than the refs themselves. They can't always be in the best positions to see everything that goes on.

    **EDITED** No name calling.
    Several times hogs pushed our players with both hands for no reason and nothing called..off ball action...Shows is an ass...**EDITED** - Same .back to top...

    This post was edited by 7lives on 3/4/2013 at 3:35 AM

    mikeee259

  • I don't think it was going to matter who officiated this game. Arkansas gets away with murder at home regardless of who the officials are. They have all year.

    80 points per game at home versus 60 on the road. Thats an pretty ridiculous number. Part of it, as with most teams, they shoot better at home. But another big part of that is that style is much less effective if you don't get the whistle. Never win anything meaningful that way.

    And the road vs home officiating in the SEC has to be the worst in the country and it's gotten steadily worse since Gerald Boudreaux took over as the coordinator.

    montana81

  • montana81 said...

    I don't think it was going to matter who officiated this game. Arkansas gets away with murder at home regardless of who the officials are. They have all year.

    80 points per game at home versus 60 on the road. Thats an pretty ridiculous number. Part of it, as with most teams, they shoot better at home. But another big part of that is that style is much less effective if you don't get the whistle. Never win anything meaningful that way.

    And the road vs home officiating in the SEC has to be the worst in the country and it's gotten steadily worse since Gerald Boudreaux took over as the coordinator.

    There is no such thing as "sec officials" anymore. All the power conferences share the same officials and the issue we are having is not unique to us.

    hoptownukfan

  • I was under the impression that they try to keep certain guys in certain regions as to cut down on travel time for them. Which results in certain guys calling a lot more SEC games or a lot more big 10 games.

    As conference realignment gets more ridiculous though that will change.

    montana81

  • SHows stays east of the Mississippi river and does mostly SEC and big east games..

    Our only win with him officiating is the Morehead game.

    Doug Shows Officiating Schedule - College Basketball Referee

    MLB, NFL, NBA, College Basketball, and College Football Stats, Scores, and Analysis

    statsheet.com

    hoptownukfan

  • UK fan 4Life said...

    Don't post much here but I know Doug shows dad played at Arkansas. Why would he even be aloud to officiate there since his dad probably made him a Hogs fan through and through. (Not to mention he is the worst ref in the history of college ball.)

    Shows' dad played at Mississippi State...not Arkansas.

    Blue Goose

  • hoptownukfan said...

    SHows stays east of the Mississippi river and does mostly SEC and big east games..

    Our only win with him officiating is the Morehead game.

    I actually did notice that as well, and pointed it out immediately. To me, that's not much of a coincidence. I guarantee if you talked to Calipari off the record he would go on a rant about Shows.

    UKDUDE2

  • UKDUDE2 said...

    I actually did notice that as well, and pointed it out immediately. To me, that's not much of a coincidence. I guarantee if you talked to Calipari off the record he would go on a rant about Shows.

    It's beyond obvious that there is mutual disdain. Unfortunately for us, Cal has no recourse. Shows can punish cal all he wants. And he does by how he calls games.

    hoptownukfan

  • hoptownukfan said...

    SHows stays east of the Mississippi river and does mostly SEC and big east games..

    Our only win with him officiating is the Morehead game.

    Too bad he went west of the Mississippi to call the game in Fayetteville.

    I'm usually reluctant to blame the officials but, with Arkansas' style of play, officiating is at least one big reason they have a superior record at home and a poor record on the road. Based on a quick perusal of their box scores, it appears that when they are on the road they are called for more fouls than their opponents. At home, their opponents are called for more fouls than them. When a pressing team gets away with fouling they end up with a bunch of easy points due to turnovers. Therefore, the lack of a foul call has a much greater impact than the lack of a foul call against a team that just plays physical in the half court (a Bob Huggins team, for instance).

    That said, the players and Cal also deserve their share of credit (or blame) for the loss. The players have to fight through contact and force the refs to have to call a foul (the same argument that I make about defensive ends in football who complain about being held).

    But Cal also should have been prepared for the press. His intent, apparently, was to bring the ball up deliberately against the press where the Cats could then beat Arkansas with better execution and skill. He should have known, however, that almost every time Harrow has faced a team that plays physical against him, he shies away from contact -- he even shies away from the ball. Given that, once it was clear that his guards struggled to break the press (and not just Harrow -- despite all his hustle, Polson struggled as well), he should have been prepared to ATTACK the press and use Arkansas' aggressiveness against them to get easy baskets for UK. They should have prepared to beat the press with the pass instead of the dribble. And once they beat it, attack the basket before they get back and set their defense.

    ukcat15

  • ukcat15 said...

    Too bad he went west of the Mississippi to call the game in Fayetteville.

    I'm usually reluctant to blame the officials but, with Arkansas' style of play, officiating is at least one big reason they have a superior record at home and a poor record on the road. Based on a quick perusal of their box scores, it appears that when they are on the road they are called for more fouls than their opponents. At home, their opponents are called for more fouls than them. When a pressing team gets away with fouling they end up with a bunch of easy points due to turnovers. Therefore, the lack of a foul call has a much greater impact than the lack of a foul call against a team that just plays physical in the half court (a Bob Huggins team, for instance).

    That said, the players and Cal also deserve their share of credit (or blame) for the loss. The players have to fight through contact and force the refs to have to call a foul (the same argument that I make about defensive ends in football who complain about being held).

    But Cal also should have been prepared for the press. His intent, apparently, was to bring the ball up deliberately against the press where the Cats could then beat Arkansas with better execution and skill. He should have known, however, that almost every time Harrow has faced a team that plays physical against him, he shies away from contact -- he even shies away from the ball. Given that, once it was clear that his guards struggled to break the press (and not just Harrow -- despite all his hustle, Polson struggled as well), he should have been prepared to ATTACK the press and use Arkansas' aggressiveness against them to get easy baskets for UK. They should have prepared to beat the press with the pass instead of the dribble. And once they beat it, attack the basket before they get back and set their defense.

    You see what I'm saying about him though. he officiates in conferences that are primarily in the eastern half of the US...

    hoptownukfan

  • ukcat15 said...

    Too bad he went west of the Mississippi to call the game in Fayetteville.

    I'm usually reluctant to blame the officials but, with Arkansas' style of play, officiating is at least one big reason they have a superior record at home and a poor record on the road. Based on a quick perusal of their box scores, it appears that when they are on the road they are called for more fouls than their opponents. At home, their opponents are called for more fouls than them. When a pressing team gets away with fouling they end up with a bunch of easy points due to turnovers. Therefore, the lack of a foul call has a much greater impact than the lack of a foul call against a team that just plays physical in the half court (a Bob Huggins team, for instance).

    That said, the players and Cal also deserve their share of credit (or blame) for the loss. The players have to fight through contact and force the refs to have to call a foul (the same argument that I make about defensive ends in football who complain about being held).

    But Cal also should have been prepared for the press. His intent, apparently, was to bring the ball up deliberately against the press where the Cats could then beat Arkansas with better execution and skill. He should have known, however, that almost every time Harrow has faced a team that plays physical against him, he shies away from contact -- he even shies away from the ball. Given that, once it was clear that his guards struggled to break the press (and not just Harrow -- despite all his hustle, Polson struggled as well), he should have been prepared to ATTACK the press and use Arkansas' aggressiveness against them to get easy baskets for UK. They should have prepared to beat the press with the pass instead of the dribble. And once they beat it, attack the basket before they get back and set their defense.

    I agree with your main point. harrow not attacking the hip of a trapper in a press = not getting fouls called.

    many may disagree, but once it was evident that Harrow wasn't going to be aggressive vs. the press, I would have put the ball in Goodwin's hands. his out of control dribble in the back court can't lead to bad shots, so it may have led to them actually calling fouls...

    It felt like we got beat by 40. If we could have simply beaten the press we would have won.

    As I've said before. The game vs. Florida boils down to how it's called. If we get a favorable whistle at home we have a legit shot. If not, we will lose and lose bad.

    hoptownukfan

  • Hoptown, I would have inbounded the ball with Mays to Harrow with Poythress, WCS, and Goodwin spaced at midcourt. As soon as the ball was inbounded, I would run WCS (or Wiltjer when he was in) to the top of the key in the backcourt. If the double-team came at Harrow, he would immediately pass the ball to WCS with Mays running up the opposite side of the court. From that position, WCS would first look to one of the wings at midcourt. If he could get it to them quickly, either one could attack in the open court before the defense was set. If not, Mays would be open opposite where the double-team came at Harrow. And once WCS passed the ball, he could use his athleticism to beat his man and be in position for following a miss or a pass for an easy bucket.

    If UK started getting some easy buckets against the full-court trap, Arkansas would have been forced to come out of it. They would likely still press (it's in Anderson's DNA) but it would have likely been man-to-man pressure and would not have resulted in the kinds of turnovers and easy buckets that doomed Kentucky.

    ukcat15

  • ukcat15 said...

    Hoptown, I would have inbounded the ball with Mays to Harrow with Poythress, WCS, and Goodwin spaced at midcourt. As soon as the ball was inbounded, I would run WCS (or Wiltjer when he was in) to the top of the key in the backcourt. If the double-team came at Harrow, he would immediately pass the ball to WCS with Mays running up the opposite side of the court. From that position, WCS would first look to one of the wings at midcourt. If he could get it to them quickly, either one could attack in the open court before the defense was set. If not, Mays would be open opposite where the double-team came at Harrow. And once WCS passed the ball, he could use his athleticism to beat his man and be in position for following a miss or a pass for an easy bucket.

    If UK started getting some easy buckets against the full-court trap, Arkansas would have been forced to come out of it. They would likely still press (it's in Anderson's DNA) but it would have likely been man-to-man pressure and would not have resulted in the kinds of turnovers and easy buckets that doomed Kentucky.

    We tried a lot of stuff including something similar to what you are saying. The issue is that our guards weren't tough enough to fight through the initial trap to get the pass away..

    hoptownukfan