The House of Blue

Lots of players who are not one and done type players will come and play like Darius Miller, but you gotta find the right guys. Who is to say they won't play till year four, if that is what your saying. I am talking about guys who can give you a good 10-15 minutes a game, rest your stars, and who will be here for four years as guides to the top talent freshman that you do recruit. If you look back at UK history, even basketball history in general, most if not all NCAA titles are won by teams who have the veteran players who know how to battle; and you don't get those veterans by reloading and playing nothing but one and done stars. The biggest reason that Cal has been so successful thus far is he recruited great players, AND had players like the ones mentioned above left from former teams. If it had not been for Miller, Lamb, and Jones stepping up when things got tight last year we would have lost a lot more games, and very, very easily could have lost the title (if we even got there) when Kansas made their big run. This year he has run out of those veterans and he is paying for it. Go ahead and recruit some top talent, that's great, but for crying out loud get some guys who stick around.

No,Cal has not lost this team...This team is very limited because we have very few good players..There is basically no depth to speak of. Wiltjer is so limited athletically,it is
not even funny..We have no depth at the forward position. No depth at point guard..Polson is not the answer there either..If Cal could have landed Harrell,and Oriaki and a wing forward who could score like Shabazz or whomever,we might not be having this discussion..By having no depth there is no one to push these guys in practice..And when you play 35-38 minutes per game you get tired,and your play falls off toward the end of the game...

Cal needs to change the offense some and use more picks to free Wiltjer and Mays up. Our guys need to learn how to run their man into a pick when it is set. I cannot believe Cal has not
corrected that yet..Overall we need depth and juniors and seniors on this team..A&M had big strong muscular looking guys and our guys are freshmen. It truly makes a difference..I hate the one and done rule..

The perfect example of what you said about the shooters running their man into a pick is Rotnei Clark of Butler(transfer from Ark. I think). He is 1 of the best to do this and get a shot off. He releases the ball as fast and in perfect form as any player that I have ever seen. He rubs his defender off into the pick set for him by his teammate and has that very quick look at the basket and usually hits them. The Cats did that a lot in previous years a lot more than they have this year and I agree it would be a more effective offensive set if they pick up the frequency of doing that to get Mays and Wiltjer quick and open looks at the hoop.

No OP....they are extremely well coached IMO. The truth of the matter is they are simply not that good.

You are right about Archie, he needs to understand WHEN to create his shot and its not when we are on a run and he and Alex gets a charge that should have been a short jumper. Talentwise, does anybody have that talent like last year's team had? I don't think so. Harrow whether you want to or not, has played alot better. And fi Alex and Kyle, along with Archie, had improved as much as Ryan, we would be looking at a different team. And if you think our offense is bad, I don't want to ask you about our defense, lol. If it wasn't for Noel, this team could be giving up 80 plus points a game. But saying all of this, I still believe Cal will finally get this team to where he feels good about them. I know its looks impossible now but he has a pretty good record doing this.

I don't know them by name cause I am not a recruiting guru, however there is no doubt in my mind that there are three star players out there, possibly even a four star, who would be willing to play behind a star player for awhile. The problem is not so much if they are there and if Cal can get them but that Cal won't get them because he refuses to play more than his 7-8 guys. Why not work your recruiting out to put together a team that can rotate 10 guys like the '96 squad and start running a fast pace, in your face pressing game. Seemed to work just fine as I remember. We have guys on our team now that if Cal would give them a chance could be some very valuable players to take some minutes up and let the stars rest. Laugh if you want but John Hood is one of them. I really think all a player like John needs is minutes on the floor to get in a groove and he could provide you with some very quality minutes. All players like him would be required to do is hold his own when he's in the game, and let the starter in front of him rest. And yes there are lots of players that come out of high school each year who could give those same quality minutes if given the chance. There is a reason some of the best teams around the country have 10+ usable players; and that is a reality not a dream.

here is a great example of players with huge talent who were willing to come of the bench for a couple seasons or more.

The Untouchables: The 1996 team was arguably the most talented team in UK basketball history, and quite possibly in NCAA history, with nine players who would eventually play in the NBA:
Derek Anderson
Tony Delk
Walter McCarty
Ron Mercer
Nazr Mohammed
Mark Pope
Jeff Sheppard
Wayne Turner
Antoine Walker
This team became the first SEC team in 40 years to go through SEC regular season undefeated. Kentucky would repeat this feat in 2003 and 2012. After losing in the SEC Tournament final against Mississippi State, Kentucky would make a dominating run to the Final Four. They avenged an early-season loss to UMass in the NCAA National Semifinals, and then defeated Syracuse in the NCAA Championship game. Many of the players on this great Kentucky team returned the following season.

my point is you can still pick up your one and done guys just not an entire bench of them. It does not hurt to let one or two go elsewhere and fill those spots with other talented players. This does not HAVE to be a totally one and done system where you never have any upperclassmen. I truly believe that type of system will not work. Cal is a good enough recruiter to get the one and done guys he wants then let some of the others go to pick up what will be your upperclassmen. I personally would rather have a team that only had two - four one and done stars mixed in with some other talented players who will not necessarily be ready for the NBA for two or three years. Say what you will but if all we ever have is freshmen, without even just a couple of good upperclassmen, then we will not be winning very many National Titles. As I said earlier the FAB FIVE were not able to win it in two tries, and that is the greatest single group of freshman to hit the college basketball world up till possibly next year. I just do not believe all freshman teams are what you really want to see with our program, because seriously how many times to you get a group even remotely close to the FAB FIVE that might have what it takes to win it all (and that is a big might!)?

I'm frankly beginning to wonder myself-when Cal himself says "they listen but I don't believe they hear" would seem to be the textbook definition of a bunch he's simply not connecting with...for whatever reason. No, I don't believe it's necessarily bad attitudes or lack of effort-but as I've maintained in earlier posts, several of these players seem to be lacking in instincts and basketball IQ-

1. How do you define one-and-done? Bledsoe, Orton, Lamb, and WCS were DEFINITELY not considered one and done when they were recruited. Hell, WCS just most recently recruited, many people said give him time he will need at least 2 YEARS. What happened? Did coach cal lose this team, and now he is one-and-done? Makes no sense.

2. Who has failed in our run for National Title? Wall and Cousin played great against WV. It's was our EXPERIENCED players that didn't show up. Same thing for next season. T jones were our BEST player that night when we lost to Uconn. Miller, Harrellson, Liggins, all didn't show up. Look at this year. What happened to Wiltjer? Couldn't we have won some games if Harrow was okay since the beginning? Our loss yesterday, NN was our best player. Again, our Freshmen was the best.

3. Fab FIVE as a example is one of the worst example you can give. That's era when there was no one-and-done. You are talking about Teams with top NBA talent staying 4 years. Of course Fab Five wouldn't have won in freshmen and sophomore. What's funny, however, is that they still made it to Championship game. If you put fab five in this generation, yes they would have won the NT.

Responding to the NACat
It's matter of making defense change their strategies. For example, Goodwin statistically playing very good. If you compare him to Lamb, i am pretty confident that statistically there isn't that much difference. However, with Lamb you have major risk of him going off with 3 point shots. Which means defense has to really put pressure on him. In Goodwin's case, you would have major separation and opponent would pack inside.

If Noel/WCS can shot respectably from FT range, then all the centers/pF would at least have to step out additional 2-3 steps. That gives you more spacing for players like Poythress, Goodwin, and Harrow for better driving lane. See Kevin Garnett is a great example of this. He never shoots 3, but boy he has the nastiest 18ft...people have to step out. Which results in Rondo's easy lay up.

My point is, statistically no difference. However, you can control defense and have much better spacing. Which then can utilize your mismatches much better.

Sometimes you get a group that just isn't capable of performing in the way you want. This isn't necessarily that you've "lost them", it's just a matter of talent.

1. Bledsoe was underated to begin with and was overshadowed by Wall coming in with him. Orton, as we can see, made a stupid mistake trying to leave early, Lamb was not a one and done(was here two years) and was a great asset to the NC team as an upperclassman, and WCS will IMO make a huge mistake like Orton if he tries to go after this year because I really believe he is not ready.

2. What about Bledsoe, Orton, Dodson? They all choked like freshmen will most of the time in tight games. Wall tried to take it on himself to win when himself, bledsoe, dodson, could not throw it in the ocean, and that includes the free throw line. If any of them could have hit just a couple shots and a few free throws down the stretch we would have beaten WV. Patterson was a big reason we even stayed in that game. Liggins played the best defensive game of anybody that next year, and kemba walker/jeremy lamb and UConn were just not gonna be stopped that year by anyone. As for this year and wiltjer, we all knew he would be exposed for his lack of defense and athleticism; everybody in the country knew he lacked that when he was recruited. Yes we could have won some games with Harrow healthy but he also had exprience playing college ball already, with also a year of practicing against the best point guard in the country last year. And as for yesterday NN was the best player because he is the only one who plays like a man and there are no good upperclassmen to depend on, which ironically has been the emphasis of my entire discussion to begin with.

3. Why is the Fab Five a bad example, they would all have been one and done players in todays game and they never won a title. Why? Oh thats right they choked and were beaten by teams with experienced players on the roster. enough said.

4. To further my point, how many more games do you honestly think we would have lost last year had it not been for our upperclassmen stepping up when things got tough? Do you honestly think last years team could have won a NC without Miller, Lamb, and Jones? In my opinion, absolutely not! You have got to have some good 2-4 year players!!

I take it that most of that is directed to me since I started the thread and have been talking about getting more players who will stay longer. I love having top talent and I believe you need it to win titles, but you also need just a few good players who will stay around awhile. I don't see why that is such a hard thing to accomplish. My only question is this, and answer me honestly, what would be wrong with Cal picking up 2-4 superstar players each year and lining his bench with guys who will stay a couple years to help support the talented freshmen that comes in each year? I just really do not think that that type of team is an impossible task to achieve, especially for a coach with the recruiting talent of Cal. Again I love having the top players, just not without some upperclassmen supporting players.