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Is UK Football a slippery slope

  • JDHLaw11 said...

    Literally nobody is doing that. Reflecting on the positives does not equal ignoring the negatives. This is the real problem in these discussions. Misrepresentations about the opposing beliefs. There is not one person who is keeping up with UK football that does not recognize that there are areas of weakness on this team.

    This strawman argument, used to designate those who actually see some positives as "sunshine pumpers" is asinine. And no matter how many times someone points out flaws with the team, any opinions other than "teh JOKAR sux lol" get this strawman trotted out.

    For JHB, DaCats, and Catmando, if you no longer support this program, why do you continue to post the same tired things over and over on messageboards? If you do support the program, why is your support limited to derisive message board comments and strawman arguments about the beliefs of other fans? If it's not limited to those things, what is your support level? Are you going to watch games and boo the team? Will you go and sit quietly? Email the administration? Attempt to be heard at a Board meeting?

    I guess I only see you on the message boards complaining about Joker. Maybe that colors my view.

    Can't speak fo JHB or DACATs, but I've always and still do suupport this program. That doesn't mean I'm gonna lie to myself, and falsely pump it up though. If I owe someone $100,000, and make $50 bucks one night, I'm not gonna brag to my friends about making that 50 dollars, cause it's only a minor dent in solving my actual problems. Many on here though, would pump up our young potential, while downplaying something like losing a 4 star player. What is the purpose of talking excitedly about some positives, if they are not positive enough to offset the actual negatives of the program? I don't generally start off criticizing the program, but when I hear people irrationally pump it up, it makes me want to bring the conversation back to reality. It's like when people I know go to see a band that's "popular", and regardless of whether the show is good or not, talk about how fantastic the band was, simply because they believe that's what they are supposed to do. It's nothing more than groupthink.

    Catmando

  • tWhit said...

    If what we think isn't going to change anything one way or the other then I choose to be positive and not make myself miserable about it. Personaly looking miserable in the process of losing to Louisville hasn't even entered my mind. I don't think about losing much. I tend to think about winning myself.

    By the way whose ignoring obvious weaknesses. Certainly not myself. Just because you tend to focus on the positive doesn't mean that you somehow forget about the weaknesses.

    Until the seasons over and we're sitting at 5-7 there is no reason to admit that we've got some kind of problem. If that does happen at that point we can address it. Otherwise what are we talking about.

    Problem is this really. If the team goes 5-7 will you admit that something is wrong with the program. IMHO, their are quite a few on here that will say that 5-7 is a good year and that we were only this or that from beating this or that team and that we could just as easy be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That is not positive thinking. That sounds like someone who can't accept reality even when it is staring them in the face.

    The difference between 5-7 and 7-5 at UK it is almost unmeasurable.

    Lets just beat the hell out of Louisville on Sept.2

    signature image

    The meanest dog in Taiwan.

    mrhotdice

  • mrhotdice said...

    Problem is this really. If the team goes 5-7 will you admit that something is wrong with the program. IMHO, their are quite a few on here that will say that 5-7 is a good year and that we were only this or that from beating this or that team and that we could just as easy be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That is not positive thinking. That sounds like someone who can't accept reality even when it is staring them in the face.

    The difference between 5-7 and 7-5 at UK it is almost unmeasurable.

    Lets just beat the hell out of Louisville on Sept.2

    Of course I'll admit maybe we need to think about going another direction if we go 5-7. But the point is we haven't yet. We could still go 7-5. At that point would you admit that things are looking up and that we might have the right coach in place?

    tWhit ●

  • D,DoubleD said...

    Is it possible UK missed the boat on the multipurpose QB led offense? Was that a ship that UK should have boarded with more determination when Brooks came in? Was the Pulley situation the hole in the dike? Should they have switched over to that when they had a huge playmaker in Cobb, then recruited to that strength for his sophomore and junior years, getting the offense ready for Newton and those to follow?

    I think the Pulley situation was an interesting one and one that was very hurtful to the program. Pulley was a very talented QB and the staff was ready to roll with him when he ran into trouble and was dismissed. They turned to Hartline, who was not recruited to be the starting QB at UK. The team struggled and the staff was knocked off kilter, IMO.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." ~ Emerson

    alphacat93

  • D,DoubleD said...

    I guess what I'm not seeing says it all. No one wants to talk about UK football right now. Serious low point for this program when the week before this game has the crickets chirping.

    Good news is...No where to go but up! Too long til the real season starts.

    Nobody wants to talk to your miserable a$$ about football. Do us all a favor and never come back here.

    hoptownukfan

  • alphacat93 said...

    I think the Pulley situation was an interesting one and one that was very hurtful to the program. Pulley was a very talented QB and the staff was ready to roll with him when he ran into trouble and was dismissed. They turned to Hartline, who was not recruited to be the starting QB at UK. The team struggled and the staff was knocked off kilter, IMO.

    Had joker replaced brown in his first year as head coach we likely win 8 games in his first year. Instead we had a very good offense but the most poorly coached defense in the country. Its a bad sign when your coordinators are not in high demand in the off season. Randy sanders had turned down several jobs over the years. Brown on the other hand spent two years trying to find another job and never could. It finally reached a point where joker had to cut him loose. If we can find some receivers
    II actually feel pretty good about our team.

    hoptownukfan

  • Two things here: 1)the Curtis Pulley situation hurt this program more than many realize. He is a much different QB with different talents than Mike Hartline had, and I believe the staff wanted to move the Kentucky offense in another direction because of Pulley's talents. Pulley was going to be the QB, no argument there, but his transgressions against the community and his team cost him that chance. Coach Brooks had no choice but to cut him loose. But then that left us with Mike Hartline, who clearly was not ready for what he stepped into. Throw in that injuries to his WR's that year, the youth of those in the WR corps that was left to play, and their inability to catch the damn football or block downfield made for that awful season. And it was awful. Add in some of the coaching gaffes(like giving up 2 TD's to Florida within the first 5 minutes of play on blown punt- blocking assignments!!)and we had what we had. 2)You would think that Kentucky, playing a pro-style offense would be able to at least recruit and land some decent WR's, especially with the success we experienced with Andre Woodson at QB. But then too, he actually had WR's who would catch the damned football when he threw it to them, unlike what we've had the last 2 seasons.
    Honestly, we could have 90 year old gradma's in Hoverounds who would do a better job of catching the football than our WR's have done the last 2 years. I'm sure the grandma's would have enough heart and meanness in them to catch the ball and block downfield, unlike these little girly-boys we have pretending to be SEC WR's that play for us now.
    Then add in the failed QB disaster we had with no WR's and the Morgan Newton experiment, and you can see why we have been pretty much anemic on the offensive side of the ball for the last two years.
    C'mon......... we had to resort to changing up the entire offensive package and try a gimmick against Tennessee by using a WR who was terrible until the last 4 or 5 games of his Kentucky career as our QB. How sad is that? Yeah, we won, and in the end that's all that matters, but the point is that we couldn't play them straight up and beat them, and if we had we would've lost for the 27th time in a row.
    I am just so disillusioned with this whole football situation right now. Everybody else in the SEC wins but us, and it's almost always been like this. We're expected to be one of the doormats of the SEC in football, and with what I've witnessed the last 2 years, I'm not sure I see it changing much in the near future.

    suncat05

  • suncat05 said...

    Two things here: 1)the Curtis Pulley situation hurt this program more than many realize. He is a much different QB with different talents than Mike Hartline had, and I believe the staff wanted to move the Kentucky offense in another direction because of Pulley's talents. Pulley was going to be the QB, no argument there, but his transgressions against the community and his team cost him that chance. Coach Brooks had no choice but to cut him loose. But then that left us with Mike Hartline, who clearly was not ready for what he stepped into. Throw in that injuries to his WR's that year, the youth of those in the WR corps that was left to play, and their inability to catch the damn football or block downfield made for that awful season. And it was awful. Add in some of the coaching gaffes(like giving up 2 TD's to Florida within the first 5 minutes of play on blown punt- blocking assignments!!)and we had what we had. 2)You would think that Kentucky, playing a pro-style offense would be able to at least recruit and land some decent WR's, especially with the success we experienced with Andre Woodson at QB. But then too, he actually had WR's who would catch the damned football when he threw it to them, unlike what we've had the last 2 seasons. Honestly, we could have 90 year old gradma's in Hoverounds who would do a better job of catching the football than our WR's have done the last 2 years. I'm sure the grandma's would have enough heart and meanness in them to catch the ball and block downfield, unlike these little girly-boys we have pretending to be SEC WR's that play for us now. Then add in the failed QB disaster we had with no WR's and the Morgan Newton experiment, and you can see why we have been pretty much anemic on the offensive side of the ball for the last two years. C'mon......... we had to resort to changing up the entire offensive package and try a gimmick against Tennessee by using a WR who was terrible until the last 4 or 5 games of his Kentucky career as our QB. How sad is that? Yeah, we won, and in the end that's all that matters, but the point is that we couldn't play them straight up and beat them, and if we had we would've lost for the 27th time in a row. I am just so disillusioned with this whole football situation right now. Everybody else in the SEC wins but us, and it's almost always been like this. We're expected to be one of the doormats of the SEC in football, and with what I've witnessed the last 2 years, I'm not sure I see it changing much in the near future.

    Sounds kinda like a girly boy post.

    Suchy500

  • I just call it the way I see it, and the way I see it, if you get joy out of watching a losing proposition, then good for you. Myself, if we're going to lose, can we at least have an honest, heart-felt effort so the fan base can see some hope for the future? So far, the last 2 years, it hasn't been there.
    I'm tired of watching us get our brains beat bashed in every week against the likes of Louisville, Florida, Ole Miss when they do not actually have good teams. We didn't compete against Louisville last year at all, we didn't compete against Ole Miss when we were clearly the better team(the game we lost to them in Oxford a couple of years ago), and when was the last time we beat Florida? Geez, we let a FRESHMAN score 6 uncontested TD's against us 2 years ago.
    So, if you like losing, then perhaps Kentucky football is your cup of tea. I want to see Kentucky football win, and if not then at least put up a much better fight than it has the last couple of years.

    suncat05

  • suncat05 said...

    Two things here: 1)the Curtis Pulley situation hurt this program more than many realize. He is a much different QB with different talents than Mike Hartline had, and I believe the staff wanted to move the Kentucky offense in another direction because of Pulley's talents. Pulley was going to be the QB, no argument there, but his transgressions against the community and his team cost him that chance. Coach Brooks had no choice but to cut him loose. But then that left us with Mike Hartline, who clearly was not ready for what he stepped into. Throw in that injuries to his WR's that year, the youth of those in the WR corps that was left to play, and their inability to catch the damn football or block downfield made for that awful season. And it was awful. Add in some of the coaching gaffes(like giving up 2 TD's to Florida within the first 5 minutes of play on blown punt- blocking assignments!!)and we had what we had. 2)You would think that Kentucky, playing a pro-style offense would be able to at least recruit and land some decent WR's, especially with the success we experienced with Andre Woodson at QB. But then too, he actually had WR's who would catch the damned football when he threw it to them, unlike what we've had the last 2 seasons.
    Honestly, we could have 90 year old gradma's in Hoverounds who would do a better job of catching the football than our WR's have done the last 2 years. I'm sure the grandma's would have enough heart and meanness in them to catch the ball and block downfield, unlike these little girly-boys we have pretending to be SEC WR's that play for us now.
    Then add in the failed QB disaster we had with no WR's and the Morgan Newton experiment, and you can see why we have been pretty much anemic on the offensive side of the ball for the last two years.
    C'mon......... we had to resort to changing up the entire offensive package and try a gimmick against Tennessee by using a WR who was terrible until the last 4 or 5 games of his Kentucky career as our QB. How sad is that? Yeah, we won, and in the end that's all that matters, but the point is that we couldn't play them straight up and beat them, and if we had we would've lost for the 27th time in a row.
    I am just so disillusioned with this whole football situation right now. Everybody else in the SEC wins but us, and it's almost always been like this. We're expected to be one of the doormats of the SEC in football, and with what I've witnessed the last 2 years, I'm not sure I see it changing much in the near future.

    Terrific example of a falsehood laden post by a lod'r. Go back and check your facts about how we stacked up against the sec In terms of consecutive bowl games until last year.... Every team had had a down year on the last 6 or 7 including might Florida. Bama is really the only team with a ton of consecutive great seasons.

    Dont let facts get in the way f your agenda though.

    hoptownukfan

  • Then you're obviously very happy with 5-7 football seasons.

    suncat05

  • suncat05 said...

    Then you're obviously very happy with 5-7 football seasons.

    Not at all. Again, lod tactic. Put words in a level headed fans mouth. I am on record as saying that nothing short of a bowl should save joker's job. But to say that all is lost because of one season is a very very very foolish and narrow view. It's obvious that you have not take a lOok at
    The situation from an objective point of view.

    hoptownukfan

  • mrhotdice said...

    Problem is this really. If the team goes 5-7 will you admit that something is wrong with the program. IMHO, their are quite a few on here that will say that 5-7 is a good year and that we were only this or that from beating this or that team and that we could just as easy be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That is not positive thinking. That sounds like someone who can't accept reality even when it is staring them in the face.

    The difference between 5-7 and 7-5 at UK it is almost unmeasurable.

    Lets just beat the hell out of Louisville on Sept.2

    Listen, I am one who always tells it like I see it, regardless of whether it will be seen as a LOD post or a SSP4L post. I don't see it as things are all good or all bad. Truth is, its somewhere in between.

    There are a LOT of really good young players to be excited about on both sides of the ball, but especially on D. With Minter's aggressive scheme and the type of players we are bringing in on D (e.g. Dupree, Henderson, Coleman, Faulkner, Lowery, all 3 Blaylocks, Chapman, and so on), maybe...just maybe the D will become the face of UK football. As a defense guy, that has me excited.

    But to your point, while it is bad for some to refuse to acknowledge problems until we go 5-7, its equally bad to repeatedly blast away on the negative and refuse to acknowledge the good until we go 7-5 or better. It doesn't help the players' morale or optimism when there is continually an air if negativity from the fans.

    I'm not the least bit sold on Joker as an SEC head coach, and in fact I am convinced he is not the man for the job (hope he proves me wrong though), but I am VERY excited about a lot of the younger players in this team. How can you see guys like Towles, Clemons, Taylor, Mobley, Collins, Robinson, Sweat, Legree, Shields (finally), Watson, the ATH/QB from Prattville (drawing blank in name), Faulkner, Lowery, Dupree, Henderson, Blaylocks (all 3), Tiller, Chapman, Coleman, Rumph, Cobble, Huguenin, Miller, etc. and NOT be somewhat excited about the possible future of this team?

    mjdotson

  • mjdotson said...

    Listen, I am one who always tells it like I see it, regardless of whether it will be seen as a LOD post or a SSP4L post. I don't see it as things are all good or all bad. Truth is, its somewhere in between.

    There are a LOT of really good young players to be excited about on both sides of the ball, but especially on D. With Minter's aggressive scheme and the type of players we are bringing in on D (e.g. Dupree, Henderson, Coleman, Faulkner, Lowery, all 3 Blaylocks, Chapman, and so on), maybe...just maybe the D will become the face of UK football. As a defense guy, that has me excited.

    But to your point, while it is bad for some to refuse to acknowledge problems until we go 5-7, its equally bad to repeatedly blast away on the negative and refuse to acknowledge the good until we go 7-5 or better. It doesn't help the players' morale or optimism when there is continually an air if negativity from the fans.

    I'm not the least bit sold on Joker as an SEC head coach, and in fact I am convinced he is not the man for the job (hope he proves me wrong though), but I am VERY excited about a lot of the younger players in this team. How can you see guys like Towles, Clemons, Taylor, Mobley, Collins, Robinson, Sweat, Legree, Shields (finally), Watson, the ATH/QB from Prattville (drawing blank in name), Faulkner, Lowery, Dupree, Henderson, Blaylocks (all 3), Tiller, Chapman, Coleman, Rumph, Cobble, Huguenin, Miller, etc. and NOT be somewhat excited about the possible future of this team?

    after being around this weekend and the different functions the problems goes much deeper than Joker mainly his bosses, the defenders will be in full forces this fall, LOD will be the least of their worries

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by OptimusBlue5716 on 4/21/2012 at 10:59 AM

    OptimusBlue5716

  • hoptownukfan said...

    Terrific example of a falsehood laden post by a lod'r. Go back and check your facts about how we stacked up against the sec In terms of consecutive bowl games until last year.... Every team had had a down year on the last 6 or 7 including might Florida. Bama is really the only team with a ton of consecutive great seasons.

    Dont let facts get in the way f your agenda though.

    Terrific example of a falsehood laden post by a sunshine pumper. (see how that works) Why don't you go check your facts and explain how UK's is comparable to Fl in any way? We're talking about a team that's beaten us how many times in a row? Talking about agendas!

    Catmando

  • Catmando said...

    Terrific example of a falsehood laden post by a sunshine pumper. (see how that works) Why don't you go check your facts and explain how UK's is comparable to Fl in any way? We're talking about a team that's beaten us how many times in a row? Talking about agendas!

    That was his point. Even they've had down seasons. You probably wouldn't compare us to UT either. How were they last year?

    tWhit ●

  • I guess the only thing left for me to say is I hope the LODers and the constant negative posters are the losers in this battle...otherwise we all lose!

    Suchy500

  • ^For the record, I also hope I am dead wrong when I point out negatives about our program. At least we can agree on that.

    Catmando

  • Optimus-Blue said...

    after being around this weekend and the different functions the problems goes much deeper than Joker mainly his bosses, the defenders will be in full forces this fall, LOD will be the least of their worries

    Oh please share details.

    hoptownukfan

  • Catmando said...

    Terrific example of a falsehood laden post by a sunshine pumper. (see how that works) Why don't you go check your facts and explain how UK's is comparable to Fl in any way? We're talking about a team that's beaten us how many times in a row? Talking about agendas!

    Actually, my post was very accurate. The only comparison I made was that even Florida had been down in the last 6 years. Of course their program is better than ours but you can't be perfect every year. Yet another example of a lod post. Putting words in another poster's mouth.

    In terms of ob's vague reference to the athletic department. Share details or knock off the vague and juvenile references to Barnhart. Only you would say joker's bosses are the "problem.". I didn't know we had a "problem".

    This post was edited by hoptownukfan on 4/21/2012 at 3:36 PM

    hoptownukfan

  • Same old tired arguments on both sides. Win some damn games. That pretty much ends the debate. Not overly complicated.

    bigbluemist

  • hoptownukfan said...

    Oh please share details.

    I am not in know like you are and your fellow defenders, enjoy the fall UK and mitch know how to move the needle

    OptimusBlue5716

  • That's enough. This is getting ridiculous. Same stuff every single thread. Locked.

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