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JDHLaw11 said...
The problem is: what response are you expecting?
Administrative support: The administration went and sought bonding capacity for upgrades. Denied. Private funding is now being sought, since the legislature has approved the expenditure. Players and recruits are talking about how nice the upgrades (locker room and Nutter renovations) that were quietly done look. New video and ribbon boards. Survey of fans regarding gameday experience. New uniforms from Nike, including player-requested black.
The support isn't what I would like to see, but to be honest, I wouldn't be satisfied unless UK built a football palace. There is probably more administrative support now for the football program at UK than there has been in a long, long time. Given the long history of administrative neglect of the football program, choosing now to take a "stand" is likely more detrimental than helpful. Especially because now is when the administration is finally trying to get funding and make upgrades. Lack of fan support will quite possibly be the reason funding/bonding is denied. Will the non-renewals who are making a "statement" man up and take responsibility when upgrades aren't done and waning or fickle fan support is cited as a reason?
Results on the field: If you (or anyone else) thinks that non-renewal will improve the results on the field, either directly or indirectly, you are delusional. If our biggest problem is talent and coaching, what great talent or coach is going to come to a historically bad program with a fanbase willing to drop their team after two poor seasons, even though those poor seasons saw a win over a top 10 team and the ending of two embarrassing streaks? Even more poignant, the last two seasons aren't even in the running for "worst seasons" this decade.
To answer your question: Express your frustration by communicating with the administration and decision makers, because that is a constructive action. Even better, it's a constructive action without detrimental effect on the players who sacrifice for the program. If I were a current UK player, trying to host a quality recruit, I would be embarrassed to have to explain empty seats in Commonwealth when we try to sell our program on fan support.
Limiting the communication of your concerns to nameless low-level employees who work the ticket phones is cowardly.
The only thing that I would add is that the last two seasons not only don't qualify as the "worst" two seasons of this decade, but don't qualify as the "worst" two seasons of any of the FOUR decades that I've followed UK football. That's not to say that I am happy with the results of the last two seasons, but I've seen way more seasons than not in the past where I would have taken that in a heartbeat.
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zcats said...
I hear you tWhit, maybe you would understand people's dissatisfaction with the state of the program if you actually had some skin in the game by supporting the program with season tickets. Try committing about 30 years of premium football tickets (my two and parking now run over $1700 a year), watch the decisions Joker and Mitch have made and then get called a microwave fan by the administration while they put the bare minimum into the program. Travel a few hours to the games, maybe a decade from out of state, throw in away games, 110% donations and lower tier bowls and it adds up. On the other hand, you can just invest nothing into the program and watch from the couch when it suits you and save the money and effort. Hey, more people are deciding to join you than join me.
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JDHLaw11 said...
The problem is: what response are you expecting?
Administrative support: The administration went and sought bonding capacity for upgrades. Denied. Private funding is now being sought, since the legislature has approved the expenditure. Players and recruits are talking about how nice the upgrades (locker room and Nutter renovations) that were quietly done look. New video and ribbon boards. Survey of fans regarding gameday experience. New uniforms from Nike, including player-requested black.
The support isn't what I would like to see, but to be honest, I wouldn't be satisfied unless UK built a football palace. There is probably more administrative support now for the football program at UK than there has been in a long, long time. Given the long history of administrative neglect of the football program, choosing now to take a "stand" is likely more detrimental than helpful. Especially because now is when the administration is finally trying to get funding and make upgrades. Lack of fan support will quite possibly be the reason funding/bonding is denied. Will the non-renewals who are making a "statement" man up and take responsibility when upgrades aren't done and waning or fickle fan support is cited as a reason?
Results on the field: If you (or anyone else) thinks that non-renewal will improve the results on the field, either directly or indirectly, you are delusional. If our biggest problem is talent and coaching, what great talent or coach is going to come to a historically bad program with a fanbase willing to drop their team after two poor seasons, even though those poor seasons saw a win over a top 10 team and the ending of two embarrassing streaks? Even more poignant, the last two seasons aren't even in the running for "worst seasons" this decade.
To answer your question: Express your frustration by communicating with the administration and decision makers, because that is a constructive action. Even better, it's a constructive action without detrimental effect on the players who sacrifice for the program. If I were a current UK player, trying to host a quality recruit, I would be embarrassed to have to explain empty seats in Commonwealth when we try to sell our program on fan support.
Limiting the communication of your concerns to nameless low-level employees who work the ticket phones is cowardly.
JDHoss said...
The only thing that I would add is that the last two seasons not only don't qualify as the "worst" two seasons of this decade, but don't qualify as the "worst" two seasons of any of the FOUR decades that I've followed UK football. That's not to say that I am happy with the results of the last two seasons, but I've seen way more seasons than not in the past where I would have taken that in a heartbeat.
RV says ...
to both of these outstanding posts!This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by IamRV on 6/3/2012 at 10:07 AM
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tWhit said...
I guess you feel entitled to bitch. I don't really know what you want to happen either. Things have been going good over the last several years and Mitch has done more for the program than just about anyone else thats why I really don't understand what your beef is. Rooting for a team, going to games, spending money has been your choice and now you feel you deserve what exactly. Joker and Co. are working their asses off to win football games which is all anyone should expect.
+1 my friend.... and the same goes for JDLaw
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JDHLaw11 said...
The problem is: what response are you expecting?
Administrative support: The administration went and sought bonding capacity for upgrades. Denied. Private funding is now being sought, since the legislature has approved the expenditure. Players and recruits are talking about how nice the upgrades (locker room and Nutter renovations) that were quietly done look. New video and ribbon boards. Survey of fans regarding gameday experience. New uniforms from Nike, including player-requested black.
The support isn't what I would like to see, but to be honest, I wouldn't be satisfied unless UK built a football palace. There is probably more administrative support now for the football program at UK than there has been in a long, long time. Given the long history of administrative neglect of the football program, choosing now to take a "stand" is likely more detrimental than helpful. Especially because now is when the administration is finally trying to get funding and make upgrades. Lack of fan support will quite possibly be the reason funding/bonding is denied. Will the non-renewals who are making a "statement" man up and take responsibility when upgrades aren't done and waning or fickle fan support is cited as a reason?
Results on the field: If you (or anyone else) thinks that non-renewal will improve the results on the field, either directly or indirectly, you are delusional. If our biggest problem is talent and coaching, what great talent or coach is going to come to a historically bad program with a fanbase willing to drop their team after two poor seasons, even though those poor seasons saw a win over a top 10 team and the ending of two embarrassing streaks? Even more poignant, the last two seasons aren't even in the running for "worst seasons" this decade.
To answer your question: Express your frustration by communicating with the administration and decision makers, because that is a constructive action. Even better, it's a constructive action without detrimental effect on the players who sacrifice for the program. If I were a current UK player, trying to host a quality recruit, I would be embarrassed to have to explain empty seats in Commonwealth when we try to sell our program on fan support.
Limiting the communication of your concerns to nameless low-level employees who work the ticket phones is cowardly.
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jeffries123 said...
I don't believe its the win/loss record that people are complaining about. Its the way we got there. Struggling against wku, getting humiliated Vandy and s car. Not to mention losing to Louisville and getting crushed by lsu and Florida. I also believe a coach means more than facilities. Take Florida And zook for example. The one question I have for people is would you come or let your child play for this staff if you had other options?
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zcats said...
I hear you tWhit, maybe you would understand people's dissatisfaction with the state of the program if you actually had some skin in the game by supporting the program with season tickets. Try committing about 30 years of premium football tickets (my two and parking now run over $1700 a year), watch the decisions Joker and Mitch have made and then get called a microwave fan by the administration while they put the bare minimum into the program. Travel a few hours to the games, maybe a decade from out of state, throw in away games, 110% donations and lower tier bowls and it adds up. On the other hand, you can just invest nothing into the program and watch from the couch when it suits you and save the money and effort. Hey, more people are deciding to join you than join me.
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USMCatFan said...
Tommy, The carpet will be BLUE for you (JJ, WM, & Cobby too!). Same as it is for any True UK Fan (LODers need not apply).
JJ, The chili is always the last home game. Other games the menu is more traditional; ribs, grilled pork tenderloin, etc.
Plus, it looks like I'm making the trip to Arkansas with Irish Poker Dog & his frat buddies.
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tommy said...
Nice catch on that my friend. I have no idea what I was thinking with the "red" comment. OH GOD! I hope I'm not being brainwashed by all the Sooner fans!!! Lol
Damn if I don't need to get back to CWS and see our boys play ASAP! haha.As far as your tailgate goes, its one of the things I look most forward to about the college football season. Good food and drinks, good friends, good times, good FANS, and hopefully some GREAT football. Saturdays just don't get much better than that!
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jeffries123 said...
I don't believe its the win/loss record that people are complaining about. Its the way we got there. Struggling against wku, getting humiliated Vandy and s car. Not to mention losing to Louisville and getting crushed by lsu and Florida. I also believe a coach means more than facilities. Take Florida And zook for example. The one question I have for people is would you come or let your child play for this staff if you had other options?
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USMCatFan said...
Tommy, The carpet will be BLUE for you (JJ, WM, & Cobby too!). Same as it is for any True UK Fan (LODers need not apply).
JJ, The chili is always the last home game. Other games the menu is more traditional; ribs, grilled pork tenderloin, etc.
Plus, it looks like I'm making the trip to Arkansas with Irish Poker Dog & his frat buddies.
It all sounds damn good to me!
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Beavis13 said...
Long version: The response I expect is for the administration to do everything in its power to make UK football a legitimate contender in the SEC.
I've conceded in other threads that I think Barnhart is the best AD at UK in my memory (back to Hagan); but IMO he hasn't come close to doing everything he could have done to make UK football a legitimate contender in the SEC. The Board of Trustees sure as hell hasn't. And I'm not even talking about facilities. If you don't have a revenue stream to fix the stadium, you don't have a revenue stream. Not much you can do about the legislature, bonding, etc. You also can't take a gun and force wealthy boosters to donate against their wills. But there is certainly enough football money coming in that could be funneled back into the program to give our coaches and players a fighting chance to get better.
Rich Brooks made the famous quote, something to the effect that UK football needed to enter the 21st century. Evidently he felt UK wasn't doing enough to support football. And I agree.
--I've mentioned in other threads that recruiting is one of the ways to turn the program into a big winner. Mitch's philosophy in every single sport has been to hire good/great recruiters and turn them loose. I'm sure most posters here would agree that Joker and the current staff are the best collective recruiters we've had here, maybe ever. And yet the recruiting budget is among the smallest in the league. UK allocates less money to recruit 25 football signees per year than it does to recruit 5-7 basketball signees per year.
I've seen stories that say UK's football recruiting budget is one third of Alabama's recruiting budget, and that Alabama's budget has doubled or tripled the last few years. If anything, our budget should be more than Alabama's budget. They have every single advantage you could want in recruiting -- best coach in the nation, facilities, tradition, trophy cases that are full, all the great high school players they could ever want in their own backyard -- and yet spend a million per year in recruiting. OTOH, Kentucky has next to no great players available in state. If we are to ever sign classes full of 4- and 5-star players like the big boys, we are going to have to spend money to have our coaches literally living out of their suitcases as they recruit in Georgia, Florida, Texas, etc.
--Coaching staff. I like Joker a lot. He was a player at UK when I first met him and every time our paths crossed back then and in the next few years he always went out of his way to help me. He's been a good to maybe even great coordinator here at times. Having said that, I'd say Vandy is the only other SEC school that would have hired a guy with his resume as head coach. You simply can't throw a guy with no head coaching experience into the fire in the nation's top football league. It's even worse to do so at a school like UK, which already has the deck stacked against it. It could still work out. But IMO, Joker should have left to gain experience at a smaller school before taking over here, or we should have hired a proven coach.
--Recruiting room and similar, small facilities upgrades. This one gets talked about way too much. But the fact still remains that Arkansas, for example has built, not one, but two state-of-the-art recruiting rooms in the time since Brooks first started asking for one.
To sum it all up, UK basketball goes first class in every single thing it does. Everything. How much time and effort and money is spent to make Big Blue Madness the biggest event of its kind? Contrast that to the spring football game. All they do to try to draw a crowd for that is put up a tent selling surplus athletic equipment and send out a few tweets with lame hashtags like #rise #operationwin, etc.
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JDHLaw11 said...
I read your long version as well, and don't disagree with much, if any, of what you said.
The point is, the neglect has been so profound for so long that even sparse recent measures look good in comparison. Trust me, I would love to have a football first mentality at UK, but I don't know why withholding fan support would encourage that in the slightest.
As for your coaching staff comparison, Florida, Vanderbilt, and Mississippi State have recently hired coordinators to their first head coaching jobs. Those are three I can name from the SEC in the last three years, without mentioning Phillips. In 2008, when Phillips was named HCIW, he was coming off a school record-setting season and had one of the top offenses in the SEC.
I wanted a big name to come and coach here when Phillips was named HCIW. I would have preferred someone with more experience as a HC, or someone with more than three years as OC in a BCS league. However, coaching decisions are not mine to make, and I'm not going to withhold my support because I didn't agree with the decision.
This post was edited by hoptownukfan on 6/3/2012 at 5:40 PM
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OK, what are you guys hearing about UK Football Season Tickets?