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Whitaker568 said...
I guess I'm from the school of if you can't handle the heat, get out the hell out my kitchen.
If Maxwell isn't ready to lead this program find a QB that is. QB play was and is the one area that will keep us from making a Bowl game. A QB is more than just completing passes and throwing TD's. A QB MUST be a leader, no scratch that, a QB must be THE leader of a FB team.
UK didn't have a leader last season until it was too late. And even then it wasn't the QB.
Does Smith want to be a Woodson or Pulley?
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bigcat65 said...
Guys attack me all you want. Seems like a common theme anytme someone post something you simoly would prefer to ignore. But Max isn't acting the way Joker wants his QB to act. This isn't the first issue. I'm not saying he is a bad kid or anything like it. But he isn't making a lot of good choices that demonstrate leadership right now. And no he wasn't just walking down the street drinking a Pepsi and got "jumped" for no reason. Look at it this way. Smith is just a soph yet Joker said on signing day he wanted Towels to be the face of the program. Smith is a talented young man with skills and ability to start the next 3 years. But he is doing some stuff that might take him out of the equation ala Curtus Pulley. Ignore it all you want, blast me for sharing the information. But I imagine this won't be the first or the last time his actions come under scrutiny. That being said he is a young guy far from home and like a lot of young guys will make mistakes. He certainly has time to turn it around and I hope and expect he will. So don't make some bs issue out of what I'm saying or call me out as being Debbie downer. It is what it is, every school has guys that do dumb things. But as the expected QB he is going to be held to a higher level of expectation on and off the field which in my option he should be.
This post was edited by loyalblue on 2/12/2012 at 12:16 PM
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bigcat65 said...
Details, maybe it didn't happen. It's a message board so the whole point is to share opinions. It's college and guys get into situations that on retrospect they could have avoided. Max is the staring QB and Joker will expect him to show leadership part of which is avoiding situations where he or his teammates could get hurt. He just needs to start making better decisions or else Towels will be the face of the program sooner then later. Nothing controversial in the least but if you want to take it that way so be it. But let me ask you this in the event this is true. Do you think Joker would be happy or pissed his starting QB might have to miss all or part of spring practice? Do you think Joker would be happy or pissed his starting QB is someplace he shouldn't have been? If you think he is completely innocent of this hypothetical situation do you think UK would have released a statement that Max was viciously attacked with charges pending or would it make sense that he might have been partly responsible so no official charges were made? You tell me.
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rompcat said...
About this
***
Details.
***Excellent, but no details are being addressed and that is the problem.
Next:
***
It's a message board so the whole point is to share opinions.
***It appears clarifications need to be made on what is opinion and what is fact. An example of a fact is something that happened. An opinion would be a subjective appraisal of something.
Going to a previous post by above poster, the statement "Smith has a good but of growing up to do folks. Maybe he will get it together before blowing his chance." it is based off the post in the OP. But, it is a fact that the OP (posted by JD) stated that something occurred and made no claim of fault or gave any indication to support any such claim. Stating that that a person is at fault and needs to grow up without having any supporting evidence is an attack, an unsubstantiated attack.
This needs to be repeated for clarification.
Stating that that a person is at fault and needs to grow up without having any supporting evidence is an attack.
In this case, it is an unsubstantiated attack.Saying otherwise is a lie.
It is a fact that something occurred. There is no supporting evidence to suggest a particular interpretation of what happened is the correct one. Proclaiming fault is an attack. Proclaiming fault without substantiation is an unsubstantiated attack.
This is ridiculous that suggestions are being made otherwise.
Next:
***
He just needs to start making better decisions or else Towels will be the face of the program sooner then later.
***No indication was given in any source that any decision was made by Smith, much less a wrong one.
Another unsubstantiated attack.Next:
***
Nothing controversial in the least but if you want to take it that way so be it.
***Nothing controversial if making unsubstantiated attacks on others is not considered controversial. Pathetic is a better description than controversial.
Next:
***
Do you think Joker would be happy or pissed his starting QB might have to miss all or part of spring practice? Do you think Joker would be happy or pissed his starting QB is someplace he shouldn't have been?
***Moot point. Yes, Joker and all of the fanbase would be not happy. But, there is no supporting evidence that Smith was anywhere he should not have been. Moot point used in an attempt to support an unsubstantiated claim.
Next:
***
If you think he is completely innocent of this hypothetical situation do you think UK would have released a statement that Max was viciously attacked with charges pending or would it make sense that he might have been partly responsible so no official charges were made?
***In general, universities do not make releases in such situations. The general consensus of institutional behavior in such situations is to collect information before making statements. Obviously that logic is not well understood...Also, it is Sunday afternoon, so no statement would be released on that grounds alone. More attempts to substantiate a conclusion drawn without evidence. Doing so is nonsense.
Next:
***
You tell me.
***Not addressing anyone, merely explaining the situation.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by bigcat65 on 2/12/2012 at 1:39 PM
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bigcat65 said...
I'm not hating on Max Smith at all. I think he has a lot of talent and potential. If you think it is a good idea that your starting QB is in a fight then fine. If you want to believe it is the only time or if it didn't happen at all then fine. I you want to believe Joker is happy about it and has never had a word with Smith about maturing into a leader then good for you. I said what I know to be true. Max needs to start making better decisions I.e. maturing or Towels will be doing what Joker said a few weeks ago. Become the face of the program I.e the stating QB. Don't take what I said an turn it into a anti Smith rant because that isn't close to what I said. Ignoring issues doesn't make them go away. If you can't even discuss them however without getting emotional then don't read theads titled in that light.
This post was edited by rompcat on 2/12/2012 at 1:56 PM
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bigcat65 said...
Police reports are public knowledge and no charges involving Smith as victim or accused has been made. Still he didn't get facial fractures by accident. A QB is always responsible for showing judgement even if that means walking away. Did you miss Joker getting on Neloms for throwing a punch? On or off the field QBs are leaders and while most kids need to mature the QB must be on at all times. You can disagree but you are on the opposite side of how Joker and this staff view leadership.
I can go into details all day long but it's pointless because anything I say will be dismissed sinceSome like yourself don't want to know the truth about anything. But Jeff stated tge thread and you are basucally assuming nobody knows anything which is clearly your right. You are assuming thet if KY starting QB got into a fight nobody knows details and that football players are all easy victims. You likely think OJ was innocent.
Max needs to mature. Ask any KY coach for yourself. I suspect it will be discussed at some time by Joker as it just happened last week. If the injuries impact his participation this spring it will surely be addressed. But not proactively as the university does not report such things. I'm shocked that simply stating a 19 year old college kid has some maturing to do is viewed as "pathetic". Actually not having a realistic opinion on how college kids tend to act is more "pathetic" to me. But to each their own. Joker will handle what needs to be handled. Smith will either continue as he is and likely be replaced or he will make some changes and seize his chance to be a very good QB. Either way the facts/details you demand are only there if you open your eyes which is something you clearly prefer not to do.
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bigcat65 said...
I don't have a negative agenda against Uk. That is nonsense and you don't get to choose who you want to post or not. If you to believe Max simply got punched fine. If you want to believe nobody knows anything about the program then good for you. But I want to see KY win on the field. If Smith is the one doing it fine. But whoever the QB is they need to make good decisions on and off the field consistently. We lost Pulley for not making good decisions off the field consistently. We lost Hartline for the bowl game for ONE bad decision. It happens and hoping it doesn't happen again is not slamming the program.
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rompcat said...
More nonsense.
No police report ( I don't know that there is or isn't) does not mean that something did or didn't happen and does not mean that someone is or is not at fault.
This nonsense is becoming absurd.This:
***
A QB is always responsible for showing judgement even if that means walking away.
***Moot point. Without knowing what happened (other than injury), there is no basis for making a claim as to what happened (other than injury).
Next:
***
Did you miss Joker getting on Neloms for throwing a punch?
***Neloms threw a punch. There is no indication Smith did anything. Assuming he did is an unsubstantiated attack. There is no way around that.
This:
***
You are assuming thet if KY starting QB got into a fight nobody knows details and that football players are all easy victims.
***No such assumption has been made. The fact has been pointed out that no indications otherwise have been made. Judging without evidence is an unsubstantiated accusation.
This:
***
You likely think OJ was innocent.
***...has no bearing on the discussion and is an attempt to direct attention away from the situation at hand.
More nonsense.This:
***
Max needs to mature.
***...is a proclamation made with no substantiation. The substantiation is a claim that a bad decision was made without evidence that any decision was made, much less a bad one. This has been repeated and still not addressed.
About this:
***
I suspect it will be discussed at some time by Joker as it just happened last week.
***At this point, there is no available information to reach a judgment of being at fault or immature.
Next:
***
If the injuries impact his participation this spring it will surely be addressed.
***No disagreement to this has been made but it does not support the points being made.
Next:
***
I'm shocked that simply stating a 19 year old college kid has some maturing to do is viewed as "pathetic".
***Anyone would agree that 19 year old's need to mature in general. But, this was a specific statement regarding a an individual's actions in a specific situation. A statement that passed judgment without substantiating evidence. That is pathetic.
This:
***
Either way the facts/details you demand are only there if you open your eyes which is something you clearly prefer not to do.
***Complete nonsense. The fact is that no indications of behavior within the incident have been released. Passing judgment criticising (sp?) someone with no supporting evidence is an unsubstantiated attack..
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mjdotson said...
I don't agree with a lot of what bigcat65 and some others have had to say the last few months, but at the same time I don't agree with a lot of what the more "positive" posters have had to say either. In this particular case, I find it amusing how so many people on here flat out refuse to believe that some people tend to have info from sources around the program unless they lay out their sources by name, date of birth, home address and social security number and also insist that all details be given, regardless of how sensitive it may be. Otherwise, it is blown off as a negative agenda post and the attacks commence full speed ahead.
I don't personally know if bigcat65 has sources close to the program or if he knows people who do, but from reading his posts over the last few years I have no reason to believe he simply makes stuff up for the sake of trying to bring down the program. There truly are a lot of people on here who refuse to believe anything negative about the players, coaches or program could ever be true, even when its not something truly intended to stir the pot or to damage the program. Some want to believe its all blue birds and rainbows around CWS and UK's football program. That is fine, and I also know some people on here want to make everything a pissing contest and refuse to believe that someone may know what they're talking about unless they reveal the sources and details, but for once I would like to see people say: "Thanks for the info. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but time will tell. God help you if you're just making ish up to sound important."
Time will only tell how accurate these reports are in this case, and even then we may never know the details of what really happened or how Smith (or other players) is viewed by the staff from a leadership or maturity standpoint. All we will ever know is: (1) what the staff tells us, (2) what the staff allows to be leaked out to he media and through sources, and (3) what we hear on the message boards from people who are either close to the program or have contacts who are. Why people refuse to believe anything we learn through #2 or #3 is beyond me.
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Jeff Drummond said...
You don't ever want to have your guys getting into a fight, but from what I understand, Max earned some big-time respect from his teammates for having their backs. Sounds like someone was drunk and talking smack about the football team when things escalated.
Too many people here making judgments about it without details. Perhaps I should not have even posted it without more details, but like I said, it was out there on Twitter and other places. Figured it would come up here.
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mjdotson said...
I don't agree with a lot of what bigcat65 and some others have had to say the last few months, but at the same time I don't agree with a lot of what the more "positive" posters have had to say either. In this particular case, I find it ammusing how so many people on here flat out refuse to believe that some people tend to have info from sources around the program unless they lay out their sources by name, date of birth, home address and social security number and also insist that all details be given, regardless of how sensitive it may be. Otherwise, it is blown off as a negative agenda post and the attacks commence full speed ahead.
I don't personally know if bigcat65 has sources close to the program or if he knows people who do, but from reading his posts over the last few years I have no reason to believe he simply makes stuff up for the sake of trying to bring down the program. There truly are a lot of people on here who refuse to believe anything negative about the players, coaches or program could ever be true, even when its not something truly intended to stir the pot or to damage the program. Some want to believe its all blue birds and rainbows around CWS and UK's football program. That is fine, and I also know some people on here want to make everything a pissing contest and refuse to believe that someone may know what they're talking about unless they reveal the sources and details, but for once I would like to see people say: "Thanks for the info. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but time will tell. God help you if you're just making ish up to sound important."
Time will only tell how accurate these reports are in this case, and even then we may never know the details of what really happened or how Smith (or other players) is viewed by the staff from a leadership or maturity standpoint. All we will ever know is: (1) what the staff tells us, (2) what the staff allows to be leaked out to he media and through sources, and (3) what we hear on the message boards from people who are either close to the program or have contacts who are. Why people refuse to believe anything we learn through #2 or #3 is beyond me.
This post was edited by MossCat15 on 2/12/2012 at 2:36 PM
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Some rumors circulating about Maxwell Smith...