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Catmando said...
I guess my problem comes from ther fact that there are just a few, on both sides, who are hijacking and agenda posting, but as a result, anyone who doesn't post anything purely, even irrationally optimistic is lumped in as LOD. That's messed up! I don't have anything against you Jaw, I hope I didn't come off too harsh. I'm just sick of seeing anyone who's not cheerleeding being told they are LOD and not welcome.
There was a time not too long ago where all sides of an issue could be discussed, without people taking pot shots at one another. We didn't all always agree, but we could discuss our opinions nonetheless. I have always taken a cautiously optimistic approach to UK football, because unfortunately, I have learned to not get my hopes up too much over time. Things aren't always hunky dory in life, especially in regards to UK football, but at least 99% of us want the same thing, to Win.
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JawJacker said...
That's cool... you and I can both agree that this whole "sunshine pumper" and "LOD" bullsh!t is getting old. That's why I was "hoping" my OP would bring some of us together and be a more positive, "enjoyable" thread... at least, until we got to the second damn page. Stupid me... who was I kidding? lol
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Catmando said...
That game plan would not have worked against almost any other team on our schedule, and wouldn't have even worked against Tenn if their QB didn't have a messed up shoulder. Also, Joker would have never even dreamed about doing that if it wasn't for injuries and having no QB to use at all. Still, it suited the situation, and we won, so it deserves some praise.
I don't disagree that we need to shake it up and come out to surprise UL, but I don't think a gimmick offense is an answer. What we need to do is pull out a couple of surprise plays on them early to catch them off their guard.
I say send King long on the first play of the game. There's no way Charlie, or any SEC coaches are expecting Joker to do anything risky on the first play of the game, as I don't think a Joker Phillips coached team has ever done anything but run the ball, or throw a short pass on the first play! IMO, General unpredictability is the new philosophy Joker needs to embrace.
As far as gimmicks go though, they work occasionally, but even when they do, you have to be able to play fundamental ball too. Generally, a team that gets the lead with gimmicks, ends up losing it in the 2nd half because the opposing team catches on. We need to play liberally, strike fast, take an early lead, and then become conservative, defend, and control clock. In the past, Joker has always played conservative until he gets too far behind, and then, opens things up. At that point, it's usually too little too late.
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Catmando said...
I say send King long on the first play of the game. There's no way Charlie, or any SEC coaches are expecting Joker to do anything risky on the first play of the game, as I don't think a Joker Phillips coached team has ever done anything but run the ball, or throw a short pass on the first play! IMO, General unpredictability is the new philosophy Joker needs to embrace.
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suncat05 said...
CJP had 2 big items going against him & our team last season: 1)his insistence upon going with Morgan Newton @ QB no matter what, and 2)the absolute failure of our WR's to do their jobs by not catching passes, not blocking downfield after a catch was caught(which was damn rare!!), and their inability to run a correct pass route. Had these two things not happened, last season probably would have been a 8 win season, or at least ended with Kentucky being invited to a bowl game.
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hoptownukfan
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mrbaseball2004 said...
Matt, I know y'all don't get as much access as you'd like to the team, and go largely off what the coaches say (and rightfully so). That said, was there any indicator that Morgan Newton's play would be so sub-par last year? I would be interested in your opinion on why the expectations were so high in the first place (aside from his star ranking of course) and also why he fell so far below them. I'll be the first to support him if he gets the nod again this year, although I don't see that happening, but my expectations will be a lot more tempered... last year I thought we had another Andre on our hands. Maybe that was just me, though.
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mrbaseball2004 said...
Again, I don't see any of that here, and apparently neither does anyone else aside from yourself. The fact of the matter is that Joker, as head coach, has been a disappointment to date. If you can't accept that, you can't accept reality. Now, how much of that rests on his shoulders, previous staffs' recruiting woes, lack of execution from players, etc. is up for debate, but the results are not up for debate. And acknowledging the results does not make anyone less of a fan, does not equate to anyone showing their ass, and so forth. Now, I'll be the first to agree that a few people take it over the top and are generally annoying as hell, but this is on BOTH sides of the fence.
I want Joker here, and I think ultimately he may just work out. I think we will be much improved next year on both sides of the ball. I also think we looked absolutely putrid at times the last two seasons by being unprepared and undisciplined. If I see Joker throw his hands up in the air with that "what in the hell is going on here" look again, I may pull my hair out. I think we showed a lot of improvement, especially on the defensive side of the ball, towards the end of last season. Rational analysis of a coach/team's performance means taking the good with the bad, and being a fan of a team does not mean blindly supporting it at all costs. If that were the case we would still have Billy G.
It is also clear that a few posters (not directed at you JawJacker) throw around words like "agenda," "hijack," "passive agressive," and so on, and they have no idea what they actually means. If people want to be taken seriously, they need to understand what they are saying and not just throw buzzwords to the wall and see if they stick.
Now, if we have to run the wing-t to beat UT next year, so be it. It was a fun game to attend, I'm happier than hell we beat em, but the game plan (offensively) was nothing more than necessity. GO CATS and happy 4th!
This post was edited by JawJacker on 7/4/2012 at 3:53 PM
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Matt May said...
I can't speak to the star rankings, but I do think they truly thought Newton would be much improved based on what he was doing in training camp. But training camp isn't a game and Newton couldn't carry over that improved play. I don't think they thought he was going to be All-SEC or anything but they believed he would be a competent QB in what they were asking him to do. But then he goes out and plays one of the worst games I've seen from a QB against Western (for a variety of reasons, most his own, but also because of an injury-riddled offensive line and ineffective receivers), which appeared to destroy whatever confidence he had built up over the summer and in training camp. Once that boulder gets rolling downhill it's difficult to stop, and even more so when you're scared to death you're going to get hit on every play. It was a really bad combination of a lot of factors hitting at one time.
But to answer the overall question yeah, he had performed well enough in camp for them to think things were going to be solid at that position. It obviously didn't work out that way.
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Matt May said...
I can't speak to the star rankings, but I do think they truly thought Newton would be much improved based on what he was doing in training camp. But training camp isn't a game and Newton couldn't carry over that improved play. I don't think they thought he was going to be All-SEC or anything but they believed he would be a competent QB in what they were asking him to do. But then he goes out and plays one of the worst games I've seen from a QB against Western (for a variety of reasons, most his own, but also because of an injury-riddled offensive line and ineffective receivers), which appeared to destroy whatever confidence he had built up over the summer and in training camp. Once that boulder gets rolling downhill it's difficult to stop, and even more so when you're scared to death you're going to get hit on every play. It was a really bad combination of a lot of factors hitting at one time.
But to answer the overall question yeah, he had performed well enough in camp for them to think things were going to be solid at that position. It obviously didn't work out that way.
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Warmother51
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Catmando said...
^^^Translated: if you are unwilling to deny reality, don't post and don't be a UK fan.
C'mon jaw, I see nobody hijacking your thread here. You might not agree, but it's not like Suns post is even blaitantly pessimistic. He's just calling it like he sees it, and happens to disagree with your premise. Get over yourself. I'm just as tired of hearing some of you complain about those that disagree with you, as you are hearing them complain in general. It works both ways.
And as far as your post, the fact is, if Joker ran that game plan 100% of the time, for an entire game, we would lose even worse than we usually do. I'm glad you are excited, and I agree we need to throw in surprises, but gimmick football just doesn't win games very often. That's not an "LOD" opinion, that is an educated football opinion.
when you suggest that BBN has zero use for fans that don't agree with you, you are basically saying, think like me or you are wrong! That is one screwed up philosophy to live by man.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by hoptownukfan on 7/4/2012 at 5:01 PM
hoptownukfan
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The bottom line is we beat UT for the first time in decades to end the season, and we need to use that momentum to continue into the U of L game. Don't forget, that "awful" UT team crushed Cincinnati by over 3TD's and hung 40 on them. The same Cincinnati team that BEAT U of L last year. Let's just go into the season fully behind this young Kentucky team, and believing that we can beat a totally over-hyped Louisville team. U of L thinks they are going to crush us, so we do have some level of ability to surprise them. If we come out and hit them in the mouth early, they could have a bit of a melt down.
I'm ready to keep our 1-game winning streak going!
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Catfanin502 said...
The bottom line is we beat UT for the first time in decades to end the season, and we need to use that momentum to continue into the U of L game. Don't forget, that "awful" UT team crushed Cincinnati by over 3TD's and hung 40 on them. The same Cincinnati team that BEAT U of L last year. Let's just go into the season fully behind this young Kentucky team, and believing that we can beat a totally over-hyped Louisville team. U of L thinks they are going to crush us, so we do have some level of ability to surprise them. If we come out and hit them in the mouth early, they could have a bit of a melt down. I'm ready to keep our 1-game winning streak going!
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JawJacker said...
Look guys (suncat and others)... you missed the entire damn point I was trying to make. I was not trying to discredit any other player, coach, offense or defense... I was simply giving credit to Joker, as the HC, for being ballsy enough to carry out such a creative, totally unexpected "game plan". Especially, knowing damn good and well, that "certain fans" would have given him a relentless, evil tongue lashing... if things went the other way in that game. The sad part is... some of you still are anyway. I mean, he already knew his ass was on the line... especially, in some eyes of BBN and the "disgruntled fan" hall of justice. So by having the guts to stick to the "plan"... even when the stats were far from pretty (and in the face of a hostile, unhappy fan base), he showed (or proved to me) that he's a much bigger man, than any "small" man of a fan, who continues (to this day) to whine, cry and throw hissy fits like some spoiled brat not getting his way... or didn't get everything he ask for from Santa Claus.
At this point, the team (and BBN in general) has zero use for the pathetic fans who never have anything positive to say or one who "chooses" not to support Joker and our football team. It is what it is... the season is upon us. It's time to face reality and either "choose" to hop aboard the Big Blue Wagon... or kindly (and quietly) step aside. Like or not, the season is going on with or without your support. Either way, I will enjoy being a part of the excitement and "choose" to rally behind Joker and our Kentucky Wildcats. I hope you all decide to join us, but if not.. have fun sobbing in your dark, depressing closet.
Btw, It's really sad how quickly a thread, meant to excite people about football... has yet, become just another ever-awaited opportunity for the haters to hijack it with their vomit.
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mrhotdice said...
I just want the UK fans to have higher expectations than 6 wins year in and year out. I want the other SEC teams to know they have to play their best to beat UK. I want Joker to be the first coach in years to have a winning SEC record against other SEC teams. I think being a SEC team having those things should be expected. UK should never go 20-30 years without beating any team on their schedule so yes, I have high expectations for Joker and think this year plus 2 more to see if the CIW experiment works.
If it doesn't then I do not want to read on here were Joker never had his chance. Isn't that a fair deal?
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I just disagree 110%. If 7 wins is the goal then what is the point of it all. I am sure Joker is not tellling kids he recruits that 7 wins is the goal at UK year in and year out.
The reality is what you make it at UK as at all the other SEC schools. Give Joker a 2 million recruiting budget instead of building a baseball stadium and see the changes.
And from what I have been told, Beyonce is up for it but the problem is kate.
The meanest dog in Taiwan.
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Thinking about how we ended the streak against UT...