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UK Baseball and Gary Henderson

  • TNCatfanforever said...

    I live in Nashville and the weather is about like Lexington. Today 49 cloudy and winds of 30 mph. It does not bother Vandy. They are number 1 in the nation. They made a commitment to baseball. They have a beautiful field and draw big crowds. There is no excuse for the UK baseball team to be playing this poorly.


    I agree with the weather, but their crowds typically suck. When they had Price pitching and were ranked in the top 5, they would have a hundred or so at games. Maybe that's improved in the last couple of years, but they are not know for drawing big crowds.

    If Vandy can be #1, so can UK.

    The weather is just an excuse for a bad coach. Keith Madison was terrible, and he is better than Henderson.

    blue mold

  • SanAntonioCat said...

    I'm quite certain Mr. Barnhart is on top of the situation. IMO, it doesn't bode well for our Coach Henderson.

    pfffffffftt

    This should make us feel better? What's he going to do? Hire Brad Bohannon? That seems to be his pattern for everything except Men's basketball.

    Why should we think that Mitch will go out and hire someone that's cost more than the league minimum?

    blue mold

  • bigcat65 said...

    Weather hasn't stopped UL from winning.

    outside of the Big East, who do they beat?

    blue mold

  • blue mold said...

    pfffffffftt

    This should make us feel better? What's he going to do? Hire Brad Bohannon? That seems to be his pattern for everything except Men's basketball.

    Why should we think that Mitch will go out and hire someone that's cost more than the league minimum?

    Mattew Mitchell and Rachel Lawson think they were pretty good hires....

    SSP4L!! #GBB

    terryinbham

  • Matt May said...

    You can downplay the weather excuse all you want but it was a significant factor in why Cohen left. He talked about it all the time off the record.

    Really hard to refute this when we don't have access to "off the record" comments and no one ever reported anything about Cohen complaining about the weather. Heard a lot form Madison about it, but never Cohen. Only thing I recall about Cohen is that he was promised a new stadium that never came to fruition (somewhat of a consistent theme under the present UK AD).

    DACats86

  • There are all kinds of excuses, but the truth is Henderson has been terrible. They have consistently been in the top 20 in recruiting. They lost a ton of talented players after last season, several of whom just left the program.

    This team has a likely first round pick pitching every Friday night and they have won exactly 1 of his SEC starts. This team should be much better than 2-13 in SEC play. I am not saying they should be at the top, but the close losses and finding different ways to lose goes back to coaching. Henderson has done a terrible job.

    2kuk

  • I can't even believe people are trying to lay the groundwork that he should be retained after his coaching performances as head coach. He has had his chance. Next.

    blue mold

  • blue mold said...

    Kentucky has the high school talent to compete with anyone. Weather is just an excuse. North Carolina has about the same weather and they have a much stronger program than UK.

    Is the talent level all that high?

    Kentucky high school baseball is competitive enough within itself — the teams compete against each other just fine. But I've always had the perception that the talent level itself is marginal. I'll try to quantify it in a few ways.

    There are currently 12 active players in Major League Baseball who are native Kentuckians that went to Kentucky high schools. There are five other players who were born in Kentucky but were raised in other states and therefore should not be considered a product of Kentucky high school baseball (among this sublist are some impressive major leaguers: Dan Uggla, Jonny Venters, Mark Reynolds).

    Kentucky's population is about 4.4 million.

    Below I'll include the rest of the SEC states, number of active major leaguers and state population.

    Tennessee (UT, Vanderbilt): Nine active MLers; 6.3 million
    Alabama (Bama, Auburn): Nine active MLers; 4.8 million
    Georgia (UGA): 25 actives MLers; 9.7 million
    Florida (UF): 58 active MLers; 18.8 million
    Mississippi (Ole Miss, MSU): 12 active MLers; 2.9 million
    South Carolina (South Carolina): Seven active MLers; 4.6 million
    Louisiana (LSU): Nine active MLers; 4.5 million
    Arkansas (Arkansas): Six active MLers; 2.9 million

    Of the nine SEC states, Kentucky ranks seventh in population (although the state is within about 400k people of the fourth-place state, Alabama). Of the nine states, Kentucky ties for third in number of active major leaguers.

    One interesting note I've pulled from this is that while many states have more than one SEC school, the top two in terms of MLers and population only have one: Florida and Georgia. Of course, both states have a handful of other major college teams so I guess that brings it down a bit.

    Basically, Kentucky as a state ranks near the middle of the pack in the SEC in terms of active major leaguers and population.

    Of Kentucky natives on ML rosters, how many went to UK? The breakdown of schools of those 12:

    High school signees, 4 (Corey Hart, Trever Miller, Austin Kearns, Nathan Adcock)
    UK, 3 (Joe Blanton, Brandon Webb, Scott Downs)
    Austin Peay, 2 (AJ Ellis, Shawn Kelley)
    UofL, 1 (Sean Green)
    Morehead State, 1 (Jon Rauch)
    Northern Kentucky, 1 (Josh Lueke)

    Pretty much, you can twist these numbers to mean anything you want. At least to me, it mostly just says the state has an average amount of talent with a handful of Division I schools within its borders and a lot of regional powers lurking nearby.

    This post was edited by JamesPennington on 4/18/2011 at 12:38 PM

    http://www.twitter.com/pennington_jl pennington.jl@gmail.com

    JamesPennington

  • Like I said, we have the talent in state to compete with anyone. We should not be a bottom-feeder SEC program like we have been. I'm not saying we should be a power, but we have the homegrown talent to compete with anyone.

    blue mold

  • UK happens to actually still recruit nationally and still pull top 20 classes yet can't put it together on the field.

    I'll be at the Arky game on Saturday and hope they pull it together for the kids sake... the season is a doner.

    Twitter: @Br_Boston

    TKE_

  • James, thanks for doing that research and posting those numbers. Very interesting read. Obviously the Kentucky high school ranks will not be mistaken for Florida, California, or Texas. However, Kentucky is doing pretty well in producing major leaguers, at least on a per capita basis. Surprised to see KY ahead of South Carolina, Louisiana, and Alabama. Only Florida and Georgia have more active major leaguers. Conversely, if you looked at active NFL players per state, I would expect Kentucky to be in last place by a wide margin. I do not think the in-state talent pool is nearly as big of a hurdle for UK baseball as it is for the football program.

    Jeremy Grey

  • I havent followed UK this year; but I did last year and I noticed Gary has the same propensity as a manager as he had as a pitching coach:
    Leaving the starter pitcher in too long, allowing the opposition to get an insurmountable lead before he goes to a reliever. Then the same with the reliever if he does no better-leaves him in too long.
    Is he still doing that?
    Hey Gary wise up.

    ukfit

  • Well, UK is managing to choke one away tonight against WKU in front of another packed house in Bowling Green. Down 2-0, UK exploded for 8 runs in the top of the fourth. But the bullpen then proceeds to give up 1 in the sixth and 8 in the seventh. WKU takes command 11-8. Maybe UK can rally in the ninth, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Edit: Western finishes off 11-8 win over UK. Western has now beaten UK 4 straight games. Coach Finwood is doing a very good job for WKU.

    This post was edited by Jeremy Grey on 4/19/2011 at 9:46 PM

    Jeremy Grey

  • ukfit said...

    I havent followed UK this year; but I did last year and I noticed Gary has the same propensity as a manager as he had as a pitching coach: Leaving the starter pitcher in too long, allowing the opposition to get an insurmountable lead before he goes to a reliever. Then the same with the reliever if he does no better-leaves him in too long. Is he still doing that? Hey Gary wise up.

    I think some of that comes from the fact that the bullpen has been almost non-existent in recent years. Now, you can argue that is his responsibility, but I'm just saying that might be a reason for why he hangs with guys longer than you'd expect.

    signature image

    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

    Jeff Drummond

  • Jeff Drummond said...

    I think some of that comes from the fact that the bullpen has been almost non-existent in recent years. Now, you can argue that is his responsibility, but I'm just saying that might be a reason for why he hangs with guys longer than you'd expect.

    Can we make a change today please? It's obvious where this is going under Henderson

    blue mold

  • It's all about the coaching. John Cohen was a winner, Gary Henderson struggles. Expect changes after this season.

    SanAntonioCat

  • Jeff Drummond said...

    I think some of that comes from the fact that the bullpen has been almost non-existent in recent years. Now, you can argue that is his responsibility, but I'm just saying that might be a reason for why he hangs with guys longer than you'd expect.

    Jeff,

    He hangs with pitchers longer than he should at times because he over analyzes match ups, not paying enough attention to the fact their FB has gone flat and their curve may be staying up.

    Sometimes I think its forest through the trees type situation.

    Twitter: @Br_Boston

    TKE_

  • TKE_ said...

    Jeff,

    He hangs with pitchers longer than he should at times because he over analyzes match ups, not paying enough attention to the fact their FB has gone flat and their curve may be staying up.

    Sometimes I think its forest through the trees type situation.

    I don't follow UK Baseball close enough to comment on that, but in the games I have gone to, it's clear they're scared to death when they have to call on the pen.

    signature image

    E-mail: JDRUM@247SPORTS.COM Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/JDrumUK

    Jeff Drummond

  • I follow pretty closely and the pen has had it's ups and downs. I've seen Wijas look great then get shelled. Gott is promising for 1-2 inning guy... but they are so unpredictable.

    Starting pitching stats would look much better if he'd cut them three batters earlier. I know that sounds a little silly, but those are three batters even the crowd is saying 'why are they still in?'

    Twitter: @Br_Boston

    TKE_

  • John Clay seems to be on the "keep Henderson" bandwagon, and this was a terrible propaganda piece:

    Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/05/16/1741715/john-clay-in-sec-baseball-success.html#ixzz1MdShSaoH
    Maybe John Cohen caught lightning in a bottle.

    At the time, it felt like something bigger. It felt like the energetic coach had lifted Kentucky baseball to a higher plane, winning a Southeastern Conference title, earning two NCAA Tournament berths.

    Closer examination shows Cohen posted two winning conference marks — 20-10 in 2006, 16-14 in 2008 — in five seasons. Three times UK failed to make the SEC Tournament. Maybe the good old days weren't quite as good as we remembered.

    I'm taking some of what was posted by Darrell Cartwright on KSR (scout) and hoping he doesn't mind (removing opinion comments that I could):
    John Clay's use of a rarity in Georgia's 5-23 record after winning the SEC is wacky. Does Mr. Clay not recognize that Georgia also went to the College World Series in 2001? And 2004? And 2006? And 2008? And was the national runner-up in 2008? And for good measure, winning the SEC regular season championship in 2004 and 2008, and the SEC tournament in 2001 and 2004?

    Tell you what--let's see UK go to 4 College World series in 8 years, and then have a horrid SEC record, and then we'll talk. Bad analogy.

    This post was edited by blue mold on 5/18/2011 at 8:33 AM

    blue mold

  • Saying Cohen only made the SEC tournament 2 of his 5 seasons is just a blatant misuse of facts. Yes, but he built up the program to win the SEC from Keith Madison's mess in just 3 seasons. We lost a lot off of the 2006 squad and Cowgill had to RS due to injury. We bounced back in 2008 a little bit. Henderson is Keith Madison with the ability to recruit, and that's not going to last if he can't develop a bullpen as our head/pitching coach.

    blue mold

  • Just to recap what's happened since this thread started after the Ole Miss series:

    4/19/2011 at Western Kentucky
    L 11-8
    4/22/2011
    Arkansas *
    PPD to 4/23, rain
    4/23/2011
    Arkansas * W 3-2 makeup of 4/22 game
    4/23/2011
    Arkansas *
    Suspended to 4/24, inclement weather (0-0, b3)
    4/24/2011
    Arkansas * W 3-1 Resumption of 4/23 game
    4/24/2011
    Arkansas * L 5-1 6 innings, rain and travel curfew
    4/26/2011
    Louisville
    W 7-1
    4/28/2011 at LSU * L 9-5
    4/29/2011 at LSU * L 12-4
    4/30/2011 at LSU * L 8-4
    5/6/2011
    Vanderbilt * W 2-0
    5/7/2011
    Vanderbilt * L 10-3
    5/8/2011
    Vanderbilt * L 6-3
    5/10/2011
    Indiana
    W 8-5
    5/13/2011
    Georgia * W 7-4
    5/14/2011
    Georgia * W 12-5
    5/15/2011
    Georgia * L 7-6
    5/17/2011
    Western Kentucky

    CCD, rain

    We have lost 7 of 12 SEC games. Beat a mediocre (at best) Louisville team that sits #7 in one of the worst baseball conferences in the nation at .500. Beat an OK Indiana team that sits tied for 4-6th in the Big10 with a 11-10 record.

    7-8 and some people are acting like we are improving. Individual players are playing better, but we are not improved as a team.

    In SEC games since this thread was started we have been outscored:
    UK: 53 runs
    SEC opponents: 69 runs
    1.3333 runs per game less

    This post was edited by blue mold on 5/18/2011 at 8:56 AM

    blue mold

  • Lost 8 of the last 13 SEC games now.

    7-9 in our last 16 games.

    Last 13 SEC games:
    UK: 59 runs scored
    SEC Opponents: 78 runs scored

    blue mold

  • I think it is time for a baseball dome field... :) If 5-6 degrees difference makes a difference then UK is recruiting to many soft kids...

    Catfan6

  • I havent watched UK this year; but last year I did and the big thing I noticed with Henderson was he waited way too long to make a change of pitchers as they hammered UK into oblivion. It was said on here he didnt have a lot of options that were better from the bull pen.
    well, whose fault is that.
    I never liked this guy because I felt he stuck with his starting pitchers way too long as a pitching coach, too, Before you say its not his call as pitching coach; bs he recommended when he thought a change was needed when Cohen asked him.
    I dont think he recommended much change then.
    He needs to go.

    ukfit

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