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UK football....the plane is descending! (REVISITED)

  • I started this thread on this site just over a year ago, after the Western Kentucky game in Nashville. I caught a ton of opposition, including getting 14 thumbs down critiques. That might be a record.

    Is it not obvious now?

    Here is the original post:

    UK Football.....the plane is descending!
    When Rich Brooks was given the CEO hat, the UK football program was not at rock bottom, but it was not far from rock bottom. He methodically built it from the footer to the foundation and it was on the rise. He was the right man at the right time and he got it to a very good level.

    When he passed the CEO hat to "Coach in Waiting", Joe Phillips, the program had all the components in place to grow it to the next step on the ladder towards the top. Let's say the nose of the plane was upward.

    That has now changed and the nose of the plane is now pointing toward the ground. It is not aimed straight to the ground, but it is descending. I can not identify exactly when it happened, but it has happened. Maybe it was the Tennessee game. Maybe it was January, 2010.

    If you look at the last three UK performances (Tennessee, Pittsburgh, and Western Kentucky), it is an obvious conclusion that the UK football fortunes are not headed in the direction many of us hoped that it would be heading.

    This is from one of the most ardent UK supporters. I am about ready to hop out of the boat. I am very concerned about our football programs leadership. I think a lot of what I am talking about will be obvious to everyone, very soon.

    What is the next move for Mitch Barnhart? He has to realize the plane is descending, doesn't he?

    This post was edited by 5368ppi on 9/27/2012 at 10:06 AM

    5368ppi

  • 5368ppi said...

    I started this thread on this site just over a year ago, after the Western Kentucky game in Nashville. I caught a ton of opposition, including getting 14 thumbs down critiques. That might be a record.

    Is it not obvious now?

    Here is the original post:

    UK Football.....the plane is descending! When Rich Brooks was given the CEO hat, the UK football program was not at rock bottom, but it was not far from rock bottom. He methodically built it from the footer to the foundation and it was on the rise. He was the right man at the right time and he got it to a very good level.

    When he passed the CEO hat to "Coach in Waiting", Joe Phillips, the program had all the components in place to grow it to the next step on the ladder towards the top. Let's say the nose of the plane was upward.

    That has now changed and the nose of the plane is now pointing toward the ground. It is not aimed straight to the ground, but it is descending. I can not identify exactly when it happened, but it has happened. Maybe it was the Tennessee game. Maybe it was January, 2010.

    If you look at the last three UK performances (Tennessee, Pittsburgh, and Western Kentucky), it is an obvious conclusion that the UK football fortunes are not headed in the direction many of us hoped that it would be heading.

    This is from one of the most ardent UK supporters. I am about ready to hop out of the boat. I am very concerned about our football programs leadership. I think a lot of what I am talking about will be obvious to everyone, very soon.

    What is the next move for Mitch Barnhart? He has to realize the plane is descending, doesn't he?

    Well, I still dont "like" your post, but it is hard to argue 4 games into the 3rd year. I still have hope with our youth that even if Joker came back that we would be improved next year, I just dont think that is the best decision. Sorry everyone down voted you! I gave you a +1 to help out a little!

    signature image

    Big Sarge

  • The biggest question is why you haven't hopped out of the boat yet. I mean, you posted that early in 2011 and yet more than a year later you're still posting on UK fan sites.

    JDHLaw11 ●

  • JDHLaw11 said...

    The biggest question is why you haven't hopped out of the boat yet. I mean, you posted that early in 2011 and yet more than a year later you're still posting on UK fan sites.

    It is in my blood, brother!

    5368ppi

  • So did the plane land in water and turn into a boat? Or did the plane have life rafts equipped on it, and you exited the plane, got into a boat, and are now considering getting out of that boat??

    signature image signature image signature image

    BG631 ●

  • Swimming, but praying for a miracle!

    pdsimpson73

  • I say give Joker 1 more year, period.. I'm sure alot of folks will disagree, but, alot of folks will also disagree with the OP, so, there you go..

    Next year will be his 4th, all the recruits will be on his watch, except for a few 5th yr seniors.. Youth and inexperience can't be an excuse anymore, as he's giving these young guys playing time now.. If he fails to show marked improvement next year, then I'm in agreement to find someone else. When I say marked improvement, I'm saying a winning record, better than 6-6..

    bluecatntn

  • bluecatntn said...

    I say give Joker 1 more year, period.. I'm sure alot of folks will disagree, but, alot of folks will also disagree with the OP, so, there you go..

    Next year will be his 4th, all the recruits will be on his watch, except for a few 5th yr seniors.. Youth and inexperience can't be an excuse anymore, as he's giving these young guys playing time now.. If he fails to show marked improvement next year, then I'm in agreement to find someone else. When I say marked improvement, I'm saying a winning record, better than 6-6..

    We have to have a change in the leadership of the football program. There is a vote of no confidence by the largest of boosters, fans, and national media. I have been a Joker supporter, but there is nothing anybody can point to that says we are improving. That young talent you speak of is average to below average SEC talent and not very deep. We need 5 classes ranked 20-35 to get this thing righted and we are no where near that at this point.

    usa1000

  • bluecatntn said...

    I say give Joker 1 more year, period.. I'm sure alot of folks will disagree, but, alot of folks will also disagree with the OP, so, there you go..

    Next year will be his 4th, all the recruits will be on his watch, except for a few 5th yr seniors.. Youth and inexperience can't be an excuse anymore, as he's giving these young guys playing time now.. If he fails to show marked improvement next year, then I'm in agreement to find someone else. When I say marked improvement, I'm saying a winning record, better than 6-6..

    I only agree with you if we cannot make a home run hire to replace him. I would rather keep him for another year than hire someone that is just another question mark.

    signature image

    Big Sarge

  • Big Sarge said...

    I only agree with you if we cannot make a home run hire to replace him. I would rather keep him for another year than hire someone that is just another question mark.

    $3-$5 million will get us a top notch coach. It may be an NFL assistant or top coordinator, but it will get a big name coach. He is my thought. You take someone making $1.5 million or even less right now that is a really good coach that has been successful (Leavitt, Petrino, Hudspeth, Butch Jones, etc.) and offer him $3-$5 million and I have to think the ego takes over and they say yes. Bottom line is that if you fail after 5 years. And they are going to get 4 or 5 years for that money to build their program. Then oh well I made $20 million and go find a another job after a year off. It doesn't have to be an extremely hard sell when you get up to $4 million. That put you comfortably in the Top 10 and maybe Top 5 highest paid coaches in the country. They would try to make it work for that.

    usa1000

  • usa1000 said...

    $3-$5 million will get us a top notch coach. It may be an NFL assistant or top coordinator, but it will get a big name coach. He is my thought. You take someone making $1.5 million or even less right now that is a really good coach that has been successful (Leavitt, Petrino, Hudspeth, Butch Jones, etc.) and offer him $3-$5 million and I have to think the ego takes over and they say yes. Bottom line is that if you fail after 5 years. And they are going to get 4 or 5 years for that money to build their program. Then oh well I made $20 million and go find a another job after a year off. It doesn't have to be an extremely hard sell when you get up to $4 million. That put you comfortably in the Top 10 and maybe Top 5 highest paid coaches in the country. They would try to make it work for that.

    That money gets you a "top" coach for what? 2 years tops? at the first sign on winning Florida or another school of that caliber comes calling. Joker bleeds Kentucky and would be here for good. I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again. Brooks was 3-8 and the team in 2005 was complete garbage. Everyone was saying it was time for a change and that he didn't deserve to be here another year. 2006 8-5 with practically the same exact team. Guess what year in his tenure 2005 was. Year three.

    We have a ton of youth getting a ton of experience. Not saying next year we will be world beaters but next year is the year you judge from. If he has built the program with the players he needs to run his system (which is a bit different from Rich) then next year is the year that shows it.

    This post was edited by shauner17 on 9/27/2012 at 2:20 PM

    shauner17

  • shauner17 said...

    That money gets you a "top" coach for what? 2 years tops? at the first sign on winning Florida or another school of that caliber comes calling. Joker bleeds Kentucky and would be here for good. I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again. Brooks was 3-8 and the team in 2005 was complete garbage. Everyone was saying it was time for a change and that he didn't deserve to be here another year. 2006 8-5 with practically the same exact team. Guess what year in his tenure 2005 was. Year three.

    We have a ton of youth getting a ton of experience. Not saying next year we will be world beaters but next year is the year you judge from. If he has built the program with the players he needs to run his system (which is a bit different from Rich) then next year is the year that shows it.

    To say Brooks and Joker's Year 3 is the same is crazy. Look where Brooks took over and look at where program was when Joker took over. Joker is in Year 3 with a UK that had multiple Bowl appearances and success. Brooks' Year 3 UK was far removed from away from any of that. You are comparing apples to oranges when you compare Year 3 Brooks to Year 3 Joker.

    salimander

  • shauner17 said...

    That money gets you a "top" coach for what? 2 years tops? at the first sign on winning Florida or another school of that caliber comes calling. Joker bleeds Kentucky and would be here for good.

    I know, right?! Only of the smartest of the smart see the genius of this argument. I'm with you - I would much rather we keep on losing so no one wants our coach than get involved with that risky "winning" silliness... Brilliant!

    DACats86

  • shauner17 said...

    That money gets you a "top" coach for what? 2 years tops? at the first sign on winning Florida or another school of that caliber comes calling. Joker bleeds Kentucky and would be here for good. I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again. Brooks was 3-8 and the team in 2005 was complete garbage. Everyone was saying it was time for a change and that he didn't deserve to be here another year. 2006 8-5 with practically the same exact team. Guess what year in his tenure 2005 was. Year three.

    We have a ton of youth getting a ton of experience. Not saying next year we will be world beaters but next year is the year you judge from. If he has built the program with the players he needs to run his system (which is a bit different from Rich) then next year is the year that shows it.

    I am sorry, but this post is just dripping with ignorance or saracasm. Coach Brooks was working with a team beaten down with probation. Coach Phillips took over a team on the up tick (for UK standards) coming off several bowl appearance, and took it back down to the usual UK level.

    I have to believe you already knew that though, so why try to sell it?

    This post was edited by Big Sarge on 9/27/2012 at 3:28 PM

    signature image

    Big Sarge

  • attachment
    signature image

    "Kentucky Football needs to be and will be a championship contender in the SEC."~Mitch Barnhart 11/4/12

    rgunslinger

  • rgunslinger said...

    I agree. This plane has hit the mountain.

    ukblueforever ●

  • I remember that original thread.

    Nothing like coming back a year later to say, "I told you so!"

    jamccain

  • The cupboard was far from full when Joker took over.. Rich left the year he had the most starters leaving due to graduation and had done very little in the way of recruiting the year he left...No, let me rephrase that, he did nothing in the way of recruiting the year he left. Joker's 1st recruiting class was not very good, because the majority of the guys we got, we lured away from MAC/OVC/SBelt schools in the last minute and had very few early commits.. Jokers 2nd class was solid and his 3rd class was even better. However, those guys are now freshmen, sophs or rs freshmen. That's why I said give him another year.. Those guys will now be Jrs and sophs with some experience under there belts. I really think 2 years is when UK could be really competitive, but, next year, you should be able to see marked improvement.. If not, hey, he got a fair shake and you move on, but, if it works out well, then we have a die hard, blue bleeding leader for the next 10-15 years with stability to build it even better..

    bluecatntn

  • shauner17 said...

    That money gets you a "top" coach for what? 2 years tops? at the first sign on winning Florida or another school of that caliber comes calling. Joker bleeds Kentucky and would be here for good. I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again. Brooks was 3-8 and the team in 2005 was complete garbage. Everyone was saying it was time for a change and that he didn't deserve to be here another year. 2006 8-5 with practically the same exact team. Guess what year in his tenure 2005 was. Year three.

    We have a ton of youth getting a ton of experience. Not saying next year we will be world beaters but next year is the year you judge from. If he has built the program with the players he needs to run his system (which is a bit different from Rich) then next year is the year that shows it.

    For 3-5 million a year and coaching in the SEC and you think a successful coach will leave? This isn't the ACC, Big East, etc.....If a coach comes to UK making that kind of money and is suceesful in the best conference outside the NFL why would he leave. I've never understood this line of thinking?

    footballcat65

  • footballcat65 said...

    For 3-5 million a year and coaching in the SEC and you think a successful coach will leave? This isn't the ACC, Big East, etc.....If a coach comes to UK making that kind of money and is suceesful in the best conference outside the NFL why would he leave. I've never understood this line of thinking?

    I tend to agree with that myself. A coach comes in here and turns this around he has a blank slate. He practically invents football here. The right guy would be nuts to walk away. Like Donovan did with UF basketball. Change the perception the media has of the program. You know that crap affects recruiting. He can absorb the occasional off year if he makes us relevant for top tier bowl games or an SEC east title about every few years. He would own this state without nearly the pressure of other schools, or the pressure the head BB coach here has.
    But they really need someone young. With the age 70 mandatory retirement at UK it'll be Brooks all over again. If he hadn't pushed for Joker as CIW he'd have really been hamstrung more than he was his last couple years.

    BenSam

  • 5368ppi said...

    I started this thread on this site just over a year ago, after the Western Kentucky game in Nashville. I caught a ton of opposition, including getting 14 thumbs down critiques. That might be a record.

    Is it not obvious now?

    Here is the original post:

    UK Football.....the plane is descending! When Rich Brooks was given the CEO hat, the UK football program was not at rock bottom, but it was not far from rock bottom. He methodically built it from the footer to the foundation and it was on the rise. He was the right man at the right time and he got it to a very good level.

    When he passed the CEO hat to "Coach in Waiting", Joe Phillips, the program had all the components in place to grow it to the next step on the ladder towards the top. Let's say the nose of the plane was upward.

    That has now changed and the nose of the plane is now pointing toward the ground. It is not aimed straight to the ground, but it is descending. I can not identify exactly when it happened, but it has happened. Maybe it was the Tennessee game. Maybe it was January, 2010.

    If you look at the last three UK performances (Tennessee, Pittsburgh, and Western Kentucky), it is an obvious conclusion that the UK football fortunes are not headed in the direction many of us hoped that it would be heading.

    This is from one of the most ardent UK supporters. I am about ready to hop out of the boat. I am very concerned about our football programs leadership. I think a lot of what I am talking about will be obvious to everyone, very soon.

    What is the next move for Mitch Barnhart? He has to realize the plane is descending, doesn't he?

    This ignores the facilities quality & funding issue.

    vhcat1970

  • jamccain said...

    I remember that original thread.

    Nothing like coming back a year later to say, "I told you so!"

    I also remember your original response to my thread..........

    You said:

    "I can't help but saying, you're post is real idiotic. There you go, you earned it."

    It does nothing for my ego to say "I told you so." I knew what was going down at that time when I started the thread.

    Again, we need new leadership in our football program. It will not get better without a change.

    5368ppi

  • Striker/Joker

    http://youtu.be/a5QBuJla5do

    This post was edited by Kooky Kats 247 on 9/27/2012 at 10:10 PM

    Kooky Kats 247

  • Kooky Kats 247

  • Big Sarge said...

    I am sorry, but this post is just dripping with ignorance or saracasm. Coach Brooks was working with a team beaten down with probation. Coach Phillips took over a team on the up tick (for UK standards) coming off several bowl appearance, and took it back down to the usual UK level.

    I have to believe you already knew that though, so why try to sell it?

    Okay so Rich Brooks first year we were 4-8. Second year we were 2-9. Does this mean we were worst off then when Rich took over? The point of my post is that a coach runs his own system. That is why I never bought into this whole coach in waiting bull. Every coach wants his own coaches and own guys. year 4 is the year you should have all your own guys and your schemes you want to run should become much more effective then they had previously been.

    But if everyone wants to blow it all up, get another unknown, give him three years get tired of waiting and blow it all up again then please by all means. That is the story of Kentucky Football.

    As far as getting a Big Timer in here, it takes one of two things. Either you are already an established program that can go anywhere and get players or you have a large recruiting base at home you can pluck from. Kentucky has neither. Money is not the factor keeping the big boys away.

    shauner17

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