Online Now 514

The House of Blue

The home for all discussion on UK athletics

On this Board 224
Record: 3046 (4/11/2012)

Online now 445
Record: 6210 (3/13/2012)

Boards ▾

The House of Blue

The home for all discussion on UK athletics

The Paddock

The place to discuss general topics outside of Kentucky

UK Ticket Exchange

Buy, sell or swap tickets

Reply

Why?

  • When we went to a zone in the second half and cut the lead to eleven we went back to a man to man. I don't understand why we went back to a man to man since we were giving Vanderbelt trouble with a zone.

    1Dhenry ●

  • I was wondering the same. The world may never know.no

    cbaker6075

  • Didn't quite understand that either. Think Cal overthought that a little. Probably thought coming out of the TO that Stallings drew up a play for the zone and he would confuse them by going back to man thus wasting the TO for Vandy. Well that didn't happen. I'd imagine Stallings drew up plays for both or just told Johnson to take his man no matter what D they were playing.

    This post was edited by tWhit on 3/15/2013 at 10:57 PM

    tWhit ●

  • I would also ask why???

    Did Cal stop going to the post-up offense with Wiltjer, Poythress, and WCS? The offense seemed so much better running it through the post instead of the high pick-n-roll

    UKSanders

  • UKSanders said...

    I would also ask why???

    Did Cal stop going to the post-up offense with Wiltjer, Poythress, and WCS? The offense seemed so much better running it through the post instead of the high pick-n-roll

    the high pick and role worked extremely well.. Harrow got to the basket with ease.. he just couldn't finish threw the contact

    Zac_limanni

  • True. I'd like to see players using the bankshot more. Seems like a lost art. But we did mis a whole lot of baskets within 10ft.

    cbaker6075

  • How dare you all question the great and powerful Calapari. Anyone who questions his decisions will be shot down as a non UK fan. Sorry, I know that is sarcastic but I put this season and loss at his feet. Again, this is why relying on one and dones will not make for a consistent winning program. Not only should the change on defense be questioned, but the reason the team is in this situation is not recruiting a bench. Cal has been here 4 years and still there is no bench or anyone to go to if the starters are not getting it done. There is absolutely no excuse for that. You cant continually rely on freshman to come in and lead a team and be required to carry the burden of winning night in and night out. Cal has to be open to getting a few one and dones but also getting the players that will stick around and can be relied upon to provide leadership and minutes on the court. This team lacks heart and leadership. Some players have been allowed to play out of control and lazy due to not having anyone to push them for minutes. In that respect I have lost some respect for Cal by not benching players when he himself said they were selfish and uncoachable. There will be more seasons like this if more "program builders" are not brought in. I dont expect a championship every year. One of my all time favorite teams was Pitino's first team. They played their hearts out. This team could learn a lot from that team. In fact I would bet that the Bombino's would beat this UK team badly as well.

    mtk4uk

  • mtk4uk

    This season was the anomaly, not the previous 3. Relax and let Cal run the program the way he thinks will work best. After all, that's why he makes $5.2 million a year. We got stuck this season with a very down high school senior class. It wasn't a coincidence that when Noel and Shabazz reclassified and moved up one year to that class they went straight to the top of the list. Cal got the best players available, they just weren't the same caliber as the freshmen that he usually gets. It was one of the weakest high school classes in many years, and it just happened to come after a national championship season when everybody left. Next year we get back to the type of freshmen talent that we are used to seeing since Cal arrived. I can't wait.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by jasonukfan on 3/16/2013 at 1:46 AM

    Stoops Troops reporting for duty .... Which way to the front lines?

    jasonukfan

  • jasonukfan said...

    mtk4uk

    This season was the anomaly, not the previous 3. Relax and let Cal run the program the way he thinks will work best. After all, that's why he makes $5.2 million a year. We got stuck this season with a very down high school senior class. It wasn't a coincidence that when Noel and Shabazz reclassified and moved up one year to that class they went straight to the top of the list. Cal got the best players available, they just weren't the same caliber as the freshmen that he usually gets. It was one of the weakest high school classes in many years, and it just happened to come after a national championship season when everybody left. Next year we get back to the type of freshmen talent that we are used to seeing since Cal arrived. I can't wait.

    I appreciate your optimism but reloading the roster every year with freshman is not what I want to see year in and year out. I dont want to see UK just become an NBA D league team. I just dont buy into the idea that every year Cal will be able to rely on freshman to come together and make a run in the tournament. There has to be some kids that can be counted on to stay a few years and build up the program for the long term. Last years team was special, but you still had Miller to guide the young guys and Lamb and Jones who had been through the grind. Now Cal has run out of older players and he has to depend solely on the underclassman. I dont see how that will be anything but inconsistent.

    mtk4uk

  • Cal is pretty good about owning up to mistakes and adjusting. He's not too stubborn to change.

    We do have Willis coming in and might take the Hawkins kid too. And they're both 3 year players at a minimum I think.

    I'm still in shock. I really believed Cal would be immune to this type of season while he was here. He's a great coach and I just have a hard time believing this could happen under his watch. This team never really improved. Individual players showed improvement. Archie, Willie, Harrow and Polson namely.

    Poythress and Wiltjer seemed to get worse as the season went on though. And the chemistry never really got better. Losing Noel was a big blow too. I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame on the players or Cal because of that. Noel was our best player.

    montana81 ●

  • mtk4uk said...

    I appreciate your optimism but reloading the roster every year with freshman is not what I want to see year in and year out. I dont want to see UK just become an NBA D league team. I just dont buy into the idea that every year Cal will be able to rely on freshman to come together and make a run in the tournament. There has to be some kids that can be counted on to stay a few years and build up the program for the long term. Last years team was special, but you still had Miller to guide the young guys and Lamb and Jones who had been through the grind. Now Cal has run out of older players and he has to depend solely on the underclassman. I dont see how that will be anything but inconsistent.

    But yet you'd like to see Harrow and Goodwin move on. Makes sense.

    tWhit ●

  • tWhit said...

    But yet you'd like to see Harrow and Goodwin move on. Makes sense.

    Addition by subtraction. Get kids that are more team minded. I cant stand to see those two drive into 4 defenders and refuse to give the ball up. It is the end of the season and they still havent learned that yet.

    montana81. I do wonder why Cal dropped the zone after the Cats cut it to 11. This team should have been playing zone all year, especially when Noel went down. They do not have the players to play man to man. Mays and Wiltjer were liabilities all year on defense. Harrow as well had trouble staying with his man all year. Cal dropped the ball on that one.

    mtk4uk

  • mtk4uk said...

    Addition by subtraction. Get kids that are more team minded. I cant stand to see those two drive into 4 defenders and refuse to give the ball up. It is the end of the season and they still havent learned that yet.

    montana81. I do wonder why Cal dropped the zone after the Cats cut it to 11. This team should have been playing zone all year, especially when Noel went down. They do not have the players to play man to man. Mays and Wiltjer were liabilities all year on defense. Harrow as well had trouble staying with his man all year. Cal dropped the ball on that one.

    Yeah you're right a freshman and sophomore should have the game figured out by now. I mean all kids learn at the same rate. Harrow isn't a selfish player. He was just trying to hard to make things happen. Goodwin has been the only player on the team all year long that could get his own shot so hes looked selfish at times but thats not really his fault.

    Anyway I'm done arguing with ya about it.

    tWhit ●

  • It's harder than you realize to switch defenses like that mid season.

    But yeah tonight it was working. Part of me wonders if Cal tanked this season on purpose so a few guys would come back and he could go for 40-0.

    montana81 ●

  • mtk4uk said...

    I appreciate your optimism but reloading the roster every year with freshman is not what I want to see year in and year out. I dont want to see UK just become an NBA D league team. I just dont buy into the idea that every year Cal will be able to rely on freshman to come together and make a run in the tournament. There has to be some kids that can be counted on to stay a few years and build up the program for the long term. Last years team was special, but you still had Miller to guide the young guys and Lamb and Jones who had been through the grind. Now Cal has run out of older players and he has to depend solely on the underclassman. I dont see how that will be anything but inconsistent.

    "Well.....Bye."

    Stambaugh13

  • 1Dhenry said...

    When we went to a zone in the second half and cut the lead to eleven we went back to a man to man. I don't understand why we went back to a man to man since we were giving Vanderbelt trouble with a zone.

    Just a thought but he may have went back to man because Vandy is a good 3 point shooting team and they were missing wide open 3's vs. our zone. Once we got within striking distance he may have wanted to eliminate the open looks because he knew they would start making them. Clearly, it didnt work, but that may have been one thing he was thinking. I always say if it had worked we wouldnt be questioning it lol.

    Stambaugh13

  • jasonukfan said...

    mtk4uk

    This season was the anomaly, not the previous 3. Relax and let Cal run the program the way he thinks will work best. After all, that's why he makes $5.2 million a year. We got stuck this season with a very down high school senior class. It wasn't a coincidence that when Noel and Shabazz reclassified and moved up one year to that class they went straight to the top of the list. Cal got the best players available, they just weren't the same caliber as the freshmen that he usually gets. It was one of the weakest high school classes in many years, and it just happened to come after a national championship season when everybody left. Next year we get back to the type of freshmen talent that we are used to seeing since Cal arrived. I can't wait.

    This. Plus we didnt have any vets coming back next year. I would say theres a good chance we have a few back from this class. I know a lot of people have saidt hey all need to go because they wont play. But these guys ahve went through a year playing against the tough college competition. Its always going to be hit or miss with highschool seniors. They are the stars of their teams and come in thinking their crap doesnt stink. Cal does a great job fixing that but there was no leadership there this year to help him. Had Jones or Lamb came back this would have been a different team. I hope Poythress comes back and honestly I hope WCS or Goodwin come back. They will bring leadership and a year of experience. Lets not forget, this is his fourth season. If Jodie Meeks had came back, we would be talking about a guy that won 2 national championships and a final four in 3 years. Every team has down years. We are no exception to this.

    Stambaugh13

  • 1Dhenry said...

    When we went to a zone in the second half and cut the lead to eleven we went back to a man to man. I don't understand why we went back to a man to man since we were giving Vanderbelt trouble with a zone.

    UK cut into the lead less because of the zone than because the Cats made shots during that stretch and Vandy missed some open ones against the zone. But the Cats followed that stretch by missing eight of their next nine shots along with the front ends of two one-and-ones.

    ukcat15

  • mtk4uk said...

    I appreciate your optimism but reloading the roster every year with freshman is not what I want to see year in and year out. I dont want to see UK just become an NBA D league team. I just dont buy into the idea that every year Cal will be able to rely on freshman to come together and make a run in the tournament. There has to be some kids that can be counted on to stay a few years and build up the program for the long term. Last years team was special, but you still had Miller to guide the young guys and Lamb and Jones who had been through the grind. Now Cal has run out of older players and he has to depend solely on the underclassman. I dont see how that will be anything but inconsistent.

    This year's team wasn't just 4 freshmen. There were experienced players, the exact type of players you suggest we need more than NBA caliber freshmen, and it was the worst team we've had in years. The problem with this year's team was it didn't have a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist on it. It did have Nerlen's Noel, but Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress weren't the normal type of Top15 players. Wait until next year's class gets here and we'll be just fine. I'd rather have 6 or 7 NBA level players than 12 guys who can't play at that level until their senior year. If you have a problem with the current system then write some letters to the NCAA and David Stern. We aren't going to just stop going after the best players in the country because they might only be here for one season. Under the current one and done system this is the way we will operate. That's all there is to it.

    This post was edited by jasonukfan on 3/16/2013 at 3:06 PM

    Stoops Troops reporting for duty .... Which way to the front lines?

    jasonukfan

  • mtk4uk said...

    How dare you all question the great and powerful Calapari. Anyone who questions his decisions will be shot down as a non UK fan. Sorry, I know that is sarcastic but I put this season and loss at his feet. Again, this is why relying on one and dones will not make for a consistent winning program. Not only should the change on defense be questioned, but the reason the team is in this situation is not recruiting a bench. Cal has been here 4 years and still there is no bench or anyone to go to if the starters are not getting it done. There is absolutely no excuse for that. You cant continually rely on freshman to come in and lead a team and be required to carry the burden of winning night in and night out. Cal has to be open to getting a few one and dones but also getting the players that will stick around and can be relied upon to provide leadership and minutes on the court. This team lacks heart and leadership. Some players have been allowed to play out of control and lazy due to not having anyone to push them for minutes. In that respect I have lost some respect for Cal by not benching players when he himself said they were selfish and uncoachable. There will be more seasons like this if more "program builders" are not brought in. I dont expect a championship every year. One of my all time favorite teams was Pitino's first team. They played their hearts out. This team could learn a lot from that team. In fact I would bet that the Bombino's would beat this UK team badly as well.

    ^^^^^Another fan who wants the 2 and 3 star players to be recruited by Kentucky. Someday, maybe, some will understand that only in state guys who are 3 and 4 stars and grew up loving UK will come here to sit the bench but nationally ranked recruits won't. The name Kentucky means nothing to a kid from Iowa or California, and if they sign with anyone, its usually some team that isn't loaded 1 through 7 players. Cal makes mistakes, what coach doesn't but realize there will NOT be anymore teams that are senior ladened here and I am glad. All of those last teams like that with Tubby and BillyG was enough for me so quit your crying, unless you like the NIT every year.

    UKlaw82

  • jasonukfan said...

    This year's team wasn't just 4 freshmen. There were experienced players, the exact type of players you suggest we need more than NBA caliber freshmen, and it was the worst team we've had in years. The problem with this year's team was it didn't have a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist on it. It did have Nerlen's Noel, but Archie Goodwin and Alex Poythress weren't the normal type of Top15 players. Wait until next year's class gets here and we'll be just fine. I'd rather have 6 or 7 NBA level players than 12 guys who can't play at that level until their senior year. If you have a problem with the current system then write some letters to the NCAA and David Stern. We aren't going to just stop going after the best players in the country because they might only be here for one season. Under the current one and done system this is the way we will operate. That's all there is to it.

    Actually it was a little bit of both. The leadership wasn't good enough. Definitely not of the Darius Miller/Liggins/Harrelson variety and the frosh weren't good enough either not of the Davis/MKG/Wall/Cuz/Knight variety. So it was a mix of both not being good enough.

    tWhit ●

  • tWhit said...

    Actually it was a little bit of both. The leadership wasn't good enough. Definitely not of the Darius Miller/Liggins/Harrelson variety and the frosh weren't good enough either not of the Davis/MKG/Wall/Cuz/Knight variety. So it was a mix of both not being good enough.

    Which was an anomaly and perfect storm situation. There's no need to throw out the entire game plan just because things didn't work this year.

    Stoops Troops reporting for duty .... Which way to the front lines?

    jasonukfan

  • Of course not.

    tWhit ●

  • UKlaw82 said...

    ^^^^^Another fan who wants the 2 and 3 star players to be recruited by Kentucky. Someday, maybe, some will understand that only in state guys who are 3 and 4 stars and grew up loving UK will come here to sit the bench but nationally ranked recruits won't. The name Kentucky means nothing to a kid from Iowa or California, and if they sign with anyone, its usually some team that isn't loaded 1 through 7 players. Cal makes mistakes, what coach doesn't but realize there will NOT be anymore teams that are senior ladened here and I am glad. All of those last teams like that with Tubby and BillyG was enough for me so quit your crying, unless you like the NIT every year.

    That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that relying on a roster of freshmen every year will not be consistent and does not set up the program for consistent success. Every year look at the teams that make the biggest runs in the NCAA. They have seasoned leadership and superior guard play. The roster now is void of any type of leadership. This will be a constant problem if every year we turn over a new roster. I just think for the long term success that Cal will have to fill in his roster with some in state talent and some 3 star guys who develop over time and provide stability. I am not saying to only recruit those type of players. I am merely saying to set aside a scholarship or two each year for them and the rest you can use for the top tier guys. If not, then we will see more seasons like this one. I am all for getting the top recruits, Tubby just flat refused to even recruit them. There really needs to be a change to the one and done rule. It is killing college basketball. I am no expert and I support UK and Cal 100%, this is just my thoughts. I am not one of these guys who claim to know it all and think that I am some sort of mastermind. My only complaint with this team was that they quit. I cant stand to see that. I do miss the days of watching players and teams grow over time. Most of my favorite teams never won a championship. They just over achieved and played with their hearts. That is all I ask for.

    mtk4uk

  • mtk4uk said...

    That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that relying on a roster of freshmen every year will not be consistent and does not set up the program for consistent success. Every year look at the teams that make the biggest runs in the NCAA. They have seasoned leadership and superior guard play. The roster now is void of any type of leadership. This will be a constant problem if every year we turn over a new roster. I just think for the long term success that Cal will have to fill in his roster with some in state talent and some 3 star guys who develop over time and provide stability. I am not saying to only recruit those type of players. I am merely saying to set aside a scholarship or two each year for them and the rest you can use for the top tier guys. If not, then we will see more seasons like this one. I am all for getting the top recruits, Tubby just flat refused to even recruit them. There really needs to be a change to the one and done rule. It is killing college basketball. I am no expert and I support UK and Cal 100%, this is just my thoughts. I am not one of these guys who claim to know it all and think that I am some sort of mastermind. My only complaint with this team was that they quit. I cant stand to see that. I do miss the days of watching players and teams grow over time. Most of my favorite teams never won a championship. They just over achieved and played with their hearts. That is all I ask for.

    I liked winning the championship last year... a lot.

    But winning that championship led some guys to leave before they probably should have. It is just the nature of the relationship between the NBA and NCAA right now. Kids want to strike while the iron is hot and it appears no hotter than with the extra attention they receive after their team wins a championship (and they see their team mates headed to the draft). The same thing happened to UNC after their last championship.

    And, just like with UNC, Cal was forced to fill the majority of his roster with freshman. Imagine what a different team this would have been if just Doron Lamb or Marquis Teague had come back this year. Nobody would be saying that Cal's reliance on one-and-done players was a problem. But when you combine the mass exodus after the championship with a down year for incoming college freshman last year and this season should not be a big surprise -- and, yet, if not for the injury to Noel we might be talking about how THIS team could play its way into another final four.

    So we follow the championship with a down year (for the reasons that I stated) and failed to make the NCAA Tourney. But we have a potentially once-in-a-lifetime recruiting class coming in and increasing talk of possible returns by WCS and Poythress. I'll take Cal's system even if it means a down year every four or five years because prior to this year we had seen final eight, final four, and national championship over the prior three.

    ukcat15

Kentucky
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports