The Paddock

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Chiuk said...

Reagan quotes used by "libs" point out that once upon a time, the Republican party was moderate. As a poster has mentioned in this thread, the political spectrum has shifted so far right in this country, that Reagan's policies after 1982, including creating the Dept of Veterans Affairs and raising taxes 11 times (after his initial tax cuts), would make him not a "moderate" in today's political world, but rather, a "liberal". Debt celing was raised 18 times too.

Reality is distorted b/c the political spectrum has shifted so far right. That is, the middle of the road in the 80s, is not the middle of the road in 2011 (it would be left of center). Here's an excerpt from CBS news article:

"But following his party's losses in the 1982 election, Reagan largely backed off his efforts at spending cuts even as he continued to offer the small-government rhetoric that helped get him elected. In fact, he went in the opposite direction: His creation of the department of veterans affairs contributed to an increase in the federal workforce of more than 60,000 people during his presidency.

And while Reagan somewhat slowed the marginal rate of growth in the budget, it continued to increase during his time in office. So did the debt, skyrocketing from $700 billion to $3 trillion. Then there's the fact that after first pushing to cut Social Security benefits - and being stymied by Congress - Reagan in 1983 agreed to a $165 billion bailout of the program. He also massively expanded the Pentagon budget.

Meanwhile, following that initial tax cut, Reagan actually ended up raising taxes - eleven times. That's according to former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson, a longtime Reagan friend who co-chaired President Obama's fiscal commission that last year offered a deficit reduction proposal.

"Ronald Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes," historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan's diaries, told NPR. "He knew that it was necessary at times. And so there's a false mythology out there about Reagan as this conservative president who came in and just cut taxes and trimmed federal spending in a dramatic way. It didn't happen that way. It's false."

It's important to note that Reagan's tax increases did not wipe out the effects of that initial tax cut. But they did eat up about half of it. And as Peter Beinart points out, the 1983 payroll tax hike went to pay for Social Security and Medicare. ("Reagan raised taxes to pay for government-run health care," Beinart writes.) Reagan also raised the gas tax and signed the largest corporate tax increase in history, an act Joshua Green writes would be "utterly unimaginable for any conservative to support today."

Reagan was not happy about raising taxes or expanding government, and we certainly shouldn't forget that he had to work within the constraints placed upon him by a non-compliant Congress. But that doesn't change the fact that Reagan both increased spending and, after the initial cut, showed a willingness to raise taxes - exactly the sort of policy prescriptions so widely condemned by today's Reagan-reverent conservatives."

To the conservatives out there - you can spin it anyway you want. But facts are facts. The debt increased under Reagan, and so did the size of our government (as well as government spending).

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20030729-503544.html

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BigBlue4Life said...

The right has gone so far to the right even moderates on the right are borderline fascists :) And since Rush and FAUX are out I'm supposing you get your info from ultra right wing blogs like cobby.

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BigBlue4Life said...

Thing is there is no blue dog democrat equivalent in the republican party. On the contrary there's an even more right wing wing of the republican party called the teabaggers. It isn't even. Not even close. There are extreme liberals in the democratic party but they are few and far between. The republican party moderates are few and far between whilst the ultra right wing extreme has taken over. What's equivalent is the extreme liberals and the republican moderates. That's comparable. I do predict a more liberal contingent in the future as the right keeps getting more extreme and have greater numbers young democrats will go further left to counter. So you aren't right yet but you will be in 20 years.

Oh and that's not why we have the gridlock. We have the gridlock because republicans refuse to compromise on anything at all and if they don't agree with something they filibuster. Which means you have to have a super majority to get anything done. A super majority and the filibuster is unconstitutional. If you win by one vote you win. Period. You need a super majority to override a veto. That's it. That's how it's written. Both parties are too cowardly to make filibusters illegal and they both know it's illegal.

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Deeeefense said...

I agree the RWR was a conservative but I'll bet dollars to donuts if Grover Norquist had been around in the 80s the Gipper would have told him to take his pledge and stick where the sun doesn't shine. His loyalty was to the country and the people not some phoney special interest lobbyist. He cut taxes when it was the right thing to do, he raised taxes when it was the right thing to do. He did what was RIGHT.

That's why the man won 49 states in a landslide.

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BigBlue4Life said...

Yeah.... Like not even mentioning the word "AIDS" for years and years and doing NOTHING to help educate and inform the public about it. That was so RIGHT. He won 49 states in a landslide because he was going up against Walter Friggin Mondale and people were still scared by the Jimmy Carter years.

And yeah he was a uniter.... if you were a rich white guy.

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ukaveman said...

And there you have it. In one sentence you show your true beliefs about Reagan and undercut your entire argument that he was a moderate.

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BigBlue4Life said...

Yeah.... Like not even mentioning the word "AIDS" for years and years and doing NOTHING to help educate and inform the public about it. That was so RIGHT. He won 49 states in a landslide because he was going up against Walter Friggin Mondale and people were still scared by the Jimmy Carter years.

And yeah he was a uniter.... if you were a rich white guy.

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ukaveman said...

I guess if being on the side of rich white guys (your words and perception) in todays political environment is "moderate" than so be it. Yes, I'm conservative and proud of it. But I also believe that compromise isn't a bad word as long as it doesn't undermine your core values and beliefs. Example, passing and signing the prescription drug benenfit was not a conservative or even a moderate act. It was an expansion of the entitlement system (government) that was and is counter to fundamental conservative beliefs.

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ukaveman said...

You haven't got a flippin clue! A core value for Reagan was lower taxes. If you take a look at his entire record, he was a net tax reducer throughout his presidancy. He struck deals when and where he had to but overall, he refused to fully undo his first major tax cut. Compromise w/o forgoing your core beliefs.

I'm for overhauling the ENTIRE tax code and not the stupid boilerplate argument to "take away their corporate jets and oil breaks" etc. Unfortunately, this couldn't be done under the gun of the debt limit negotiations and Repubs didn't want to throw away a bargaining chip for greater tax reform later. Mark it down, loop holes will be eliminated but only in the context of a larger tax reform (precisely what Simpson/Bowles recommended). I'm for that, isn't that compromise?????