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****Official Politics Thread****

  • cobbycobb said...

    Obama trying to rape the military yet again.

    I don't mind cutting the defense budget but it's wrong to make them pay more and take away their medical benefits that they have already fought for and earned.

    From the article I read the other day, I thought this was the case. However, in the article you posted it seems to say that existing service members and retirees are grandfathered.

    Regardless, don't you think "rape" is a little strong. The example in the NY times applies to retirees earning $45k + from their retirement. The military will be asking them to pay (after the full phase in) an extra $150 a month (to total about $200 a month, for a family) for one of the best health care plans there is.

    I'm sure I'm cherry-picking, but do you know any retired military officers who did not have an extremely successful second career? I can't think of any. They generally have good jobs and in our screwed up system of health care payments, the current employer is responsible for health care. I

    Sure, it's a sacrifice and yes, they may have already sacrificed a lot. But it's an extremely sweet deal either way

    djkycat54906

  • JawJacker said...

    . The trends are showing a shift AWAY FROM liberal policies... in states where a Conservative has been elected to office (held previously by a Liberal). We are NOT seeing the opposite take place... that's why "R" Governors were HUGE winners in 2010... as well as, "R" Reps of Congress.

    Your making a lot of good points, JJ, but it seems like the thing we look at differently is the time frame. I just don't think you can count on anything that happened in 2008 or 2010 as a trend. In both those years, you had an electorate frustrated by the economy and further frustrated that the government wasn't fixing it (either by doing less or doing more).

    The overall trend in the US has been from conservative to liberal. Even in our brilliant constitution, we couldn't come to terms with the idea that everybody is a person. That radical, liberal idea had to wait 60 years. The trend toward liberalism accelerated in the last half of the 20th century and that happened to coincide with the greatest economic expansion in the history of the world. Some of that is, I think, a direct result of liberal governance--immigration, government-sponsored education, and government-sponsored infrastructure, which is not to say certain conservative values (i.e. let's kill the Russkies) didn't play a role.

    I'm not denying that in the last 20-25 years we've seen some shift to conservatism, but I don't know what evidence anybody has that it's a good thing from an economic perspective. I think it's true that most liberals don't really understand business and they'd probably ruin the economy if left unfettered, but I think the same is true about conservatives--except they tend to understand a tunnel-vision version of business and have less conception of how the community works.

    I also think this gets amplified on the federal stage and that the states give us a nice opportunity to look at far extremes as well as the middle-ground.

    djkycat54906

  • Ok, about this burning the Koran business, I don't know or care if it was the right thing to do or if Obama should have apologized for it, but how in the hell did people find out about it?! That's where the stupidness lies!

    DA23_rox

  • DA23_rox said...

    Ok, about this burning the Koran business, I don't know or care if it was the right thing to do or if Obama should have apologized for it, but how in the hell did people find out about it?! That's where the stupidness lies!

    After that idiot preacher burned the Koran and got servicemen killed for it it should have been standard protocol to tell each person serving in the middle east to not burn Koran's. They were burning them in incinerators for all to see. It wasn't that someone leaked the story. 100's of people saw these morons doing it.

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    CarlLexington

  • Where does Ron Paul stand in this race?

    tWhit

  • lol Where he always stands.

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    CarlLexington

  • I honestly don't know where that is.

    tWhit

  • Ron Paul is a loon, however his supporters are the most knowledgable out there, even if hey are more idealistic than I am. And that's saying something.

    I do respect the supporters. It sure beats voting for a guy because you'd like to sit down an have a beer with him, which is how a lot of people vote.

    DA23_rox

  • CarlLexington said...

    After that idiot preacher burned the Koran and got servicemen killed for it it should have been standard protocol to tell each person serving in the middle east to not burn Koran's. They were burning them in incinerators for all to see. It wasn't that someone leaked the story. 100's of people saw these morons doing it.

    It's my understanding it was one Koran that was confiscated from a library because it was being used to scrawl notes as coomunication among militants. Full disclosure: heard previous information from Sean Hannity.

    if that's the case, one book being thrown in the incinerator surely wasn't done at a press conference.

    DA23_rox

  • DA23_rox said...

    It's my understanding it was one Koran that was confiscated from a library because it was being used to scrawl notes as coomunication among militants. Full disclosure: heard previous information from Sean Hannity.

    if that's the case, one book being thrown in the incinerator surely wasn't done at a press conference.

    Hannity is wrong. They were old Korans that were weathered and what not and were just being replaced with new ones. The scrawling of notes might be true but it was more than one Koran.

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    CarlLexington

  • tWhit said...

    I honestly don't know where that is.

    In last place.

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    CarlLexington

  • So, what is the United States gov't doing replacing old Korans? something doesn't add up.

    DA23_rox

  • My eyes are starting to open. Take that however you like. I'm starting to see a need to follow politics. My main problem though is I can't distinguish the trustworthy from the straight loons. Everybody seems to have an agenda. All I know at this point is that some things are going on within the government and our current president that just flat out needs to stop and some ideologies need to change.

    tWhit

  • tWhit said...

    My eyes are starting to open. Take that however you like. I'm starting to see a need to follow politics. My main problem though is I can't distinguish the trustworthy from the straight loons. Everybody seems to have an agenda. All I know at this point is that some things are going on within the government and our current president that just flat out needs to stop and some ideologies need to change.

    The best thing you can do is not watch or listen to biased "news". That cuts out pretty much all radio. Left and right. That takes out Fox "news" and MSNBC. And stay away from blogs, left and right. They are just opinions in the guise of news. I've found CNN to be the most balanced and straight news source on tv. Conservatives laugh at that but anything that isn't glowingly conservative on anything and everything they consider to be liberal. On all their shows where there's a political debate they have equal numbers of democrats and republicans and give each equal time.

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    CarlLexington

  • tWhit said...

    My eyes are starting to open. Take that however you like. I'm starting to see a need to follow politics. My main problem though is I can't distinguish the trustworthy from the straight loons. Everybody seems to have an agenda. All I know at this point is that some things are going on within the government and our current president that just flat out needs to stop and some ideologies need to change.

    If you don't follow politics--how do you know that the problem is with the president?

    You've identified that there are loons, but if you've already come to a conclusion, then how do you know your conclusion isn't influenced by a loon.

    There are three Obamas--the right's distorted version, the left's distorted version, and the truth. Fact is--President Obama is a trustworthy man. He has a set of beliefs which he has fully explained and he's trying to work toward improvement of our country in his image.

    Here's another fact--President Bush was a trustworthy man. He has a set of beliefs which he has fully explained and he was trying to work toward improvement of our country in his image.

    And I'd say the same about every president we've had since Gerald Ford, with some exception for Reagan who was, in my view, fairly opaque but still certainly had the best interests of the country at heart.

    So if you really want to know what's going on the government, listen to them. Especially with the media available today, there's no reason to filter what the president or congressional leaders are saying. They'll tell you and they don't usually lie (I'm talking about people sitting in office not lying about what they're doing...candidates lie and all politicians lie about what somebody else might have done...but they generally don't lie about themselves and what they're trying to do).

    If you need some additional help, and we all do, I highly recommend Politifact.com.

    djkycat54906

  • dj-ky-cat said...

    Here's another fact--President Bush was a trustworthy man. He has a set of beliefs which he has fully explained and he was trying to work toward improvement of our country in his image.

    Fact? I would dispute that. He was told several times Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. His orders were to keep diggin until they found proof. They didn't find any. Enter WMD's. Mounds of evidence saying he didn't have them. One obscure British report said he did. That was it. He found his justification. He did that for personal reasons. It was personal with Sadam since Sadam tried to have his father killed. He wanted a reason to overthrow him and this was his golden ticket. That war has cost us lives and money and wasn't done for the good of the country. It was done for payback. And let us not forget Haliburton. Trustworthy? I wouldn't trust that fool to walk my dog.

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    CarlLexington

  • CarlLexington said...

    Fact? I would dispute that. He was told several times Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. His orders were to keep diggin until they found proof. They didn't find any. Enter WMD's. Mounds of evidence saying he didn't have them. One obscure British report said he did. That was it. He found his justification. He did that for personal reasons. It was personal with Sadam since Sadam tried to have his father killed. He wanted a reason to overthrow him and this was his golden ticket. That war has cost us lives and money and wasn't done for the good of the country. It was done for payback. And let us not forget Haliburton. Trustworthy? I wouldn't trust that fool to walk my dog.

    So I guess ALL the CIA reports everyone in Congress supposedly read.... and the fact that a MAJORITY of Dem's voted to support Bush's plan of attack, was complete BS? The Dem/Libs get a pass... and Bush (AS USUAL) gets all the damn blame. SMDH

    "You" MUST be 100% correct about everything though.... proof or no proof. SMDH (still)

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    JawJacker

  • Not all Dems voted to go. They were given false information and based their decision on that. They were also cowards. If they didn't vote to go to war the war mongers would have falsely labeled them unamerican. There were no CIA reports saying he had WMD or that he had anything to do with 9/11. Maybe if you filled your head with something other than nonsense and propaganda you wouldn't shake it so much. For the record Obama had the intestinal fortitude to vote against going to war with Iraq.

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    CarlLexington

  • dj-ky-cat said...

    If you don't follow politics--how do you know that the problem is with the president?

    You've identified that there are loons, but if you've already come to a conclusion, then how do you know your conclusion isn't influenced by a loon.

    There are three Obamas--the right's distorted version, the left's distorted version, and the truth. Fact is--President Obama is a trustworthy man. He has a set of beliefs which he has fully explained and he's trying to work toward improvement of our country in his image.

    Here's another fact--President Bush was a trustworthy man. He has a set of beliefs which he has fully explained and he was trying to work toward improvement of our country in his image.

    And I'd say the same about every president we've had since Gerald Ford, with some exception for Reagan who was, in my view, fairly opaque but still certainly had the best interests of the country at heart.

    So if you really want to know what's going on the government, listen to them. Especially with the media available today, there's no reason to filter what the president or congressional leaders are saying. They'll tell you and they don't usually lie (I'm talking about people sitting in office not lying about what they're doing...candidates lie and all politicians lie about what somebody else might have done...but they generally don't lie about themselves and what they're trying to do).

    If you need some additional help, and we all do, I highly recommend Politifact.com.

    You might as well have typed blah blah blah blah.

    tWhit

  • tWhit said...

    You might as well have typed blah blah blah blah.

    That pretty much goes for all conservatives.

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    CarlLexington

  • CarlLexington said...

    Fact? I would dispute that. He was told several times Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. His orders were to keep diggin until they found proof. They didn't find any. Enter WMD's. Mounds of evidence saying he didn't have them. One obscure British report said he did. That was it. He found his justification. He did that for personal reasons. It was personal with Sadam since Sadam tried to have his father killed. He wanted a reason to overthrow him and this was his golden ticket. That war has cost us lives and money and wasn't done for the good of the country. It was done for payback. And let us not forget Haliburton. Trustworthy? I wouldn't trust that fool to walk my dog.

    I'm pretty particular about my dog, too.

    You've basically outlined poor leadership, faulty reasoning, and acting on prejudices--all of which are accurate. But I don't think it involved lying. If you were paying attention, it became obvious Bush was going to take us to Iraq soon after 9-11, unless somebody stopped him.

    I'm not saying truthfulness and trustworthiness are necessarily a great thing. Anybody will say that Santorum and Paul are known commodities. You can trust what they say. They clearly articulate their positions, whereas nobody has any idea what Romney is really like. Yet, I'd take my chances with Romney over two nut jobs. That's not to say that, once elected, Romney will do whatever he says he's going to do--it's just that his history has made that impossible to predict.

    djkycat54906

  • CarlLexington said...

    For the record Obama had the intestinal fortitude to vote against going to war with Iraq.

    Considering his war efforts while being in office for 3 years.... even after promising that, bringing the troops home and closing gitmo, would be at the top of his list the moment he swears in.... AND considering the fact that YOU and other LIBERALS continue to make excuses for his actions, while hating on Bush for similar efforts.... only proves you (like most Libs) are a HYPOCRITE!!!

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    JawJacker

  • JawJacker said...

    Considering his war efforts while being in office for 3 years.... even after promising that, bringing the troops home and closing gitmo, would be at the top of his list the moment he swears in.... AND considering the fact that YOU and other LIBERALS continue to make excuses for his actions, while hating on Bush for similar efforts.... only proves you (like most Libs) are a HYPOCRITE!!!

    And this tidbit was brought to you by The Flat Earth Society. The Flat Earth Society; making sure you go nowhere.

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    CarlLexington

  • CarlLexington said...

    For the record Obama had the intestinal fortitude to vote against going to war with Iraq.

    This is 100% false.

    DA23_rox

  • I don't remember the Illinois state senate ever voting on hostilities against Iraq.

    DA23_rox